In the 1960’s, a time when Sidney Crosby’s still-living predecessors Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull were filling seats at NHL arenas, there were 400 annual deaths and 50,000 annual hospitalizations from the measles.
Sidney Crosby has the mumps. It’s a story trending in Canada because, well, mix anything with hockey in Canada and it will trend. But this particular news has ramifications far beyond the world of pucks and sticks and skates.
Pittsburgh Penguins center Sidney Crosby, the best hockey player in the world, has been all over the television of late, sporting a cartoonishly swollen face. Crosby, like as many as a dozen other NHL’ers, has the mumps. The outbreak has affected at least five NHL teams and dumbfounded the team’s training staff, who have not seen anything like it. Crosby has been placed in solitary confinement.
The mumps shouldn’t exist. But they do. Why? because some simply refuse to get a vaccination that is proven to prevent the illness. And we all have to live with the consequences of their actions because many of these diseases are off-the-charts contagious. The mumps can be spread through coughing, sneezing, a Gatorade bottle on the bench, a right cross to the face from a Boston Bruins goon. You get the picture.
Some of the people currently spreading the mumps self-identify with the anti-vaccination movement, a dangerous and scantly informed craze that is probably best known for semi-celebrity Jenny McCarthy, who claimed her son’s autism was caused by a vaccine. It was later debated as to whether her son had autism to begin with.
McCarthy was taking her cues from a fraudulent 1998 research paper written by the discredited former surgeon Andrew Wakefield, a charlatan who had planned to launch a venture that would line his pockets on the back of bad science.
As Alexandra Sifferlin wrote in TIME Magazine earlier this year, the dumb-dumb trend is accelerating.
“Diseases that are and have been avoidable in the U.S. thanks to vaccines, are resurfacing all across the country. Measles, for instance, was considered wiped out in 2000, but there have been several outbreaks in the past few years.”
Sidney Crosby got the mumps. It’s the fault of the anti-vaccination movement, which is more dangerous and misinformed than it even knows.
The anti-vaccination movement is strong enough that is has begun to put a dent in diseases that were thought to be eradicated. Scientists consider an eradication level of 95% ensured what is referred to as “herd immunity” or “community immunity”. Achieving this herd immunity is important because the mumps vaccine is just 88% effective, explaining why someone can easily contract the disease even if they have been vaccinated, as Crosby was.
But diseases like Measles, Whooping Cough and Chicken Pox are on the rise again. Sifferlin details a case in 2011 in which a unvaccinated Berkeley student was the suspected source of an outbreak that resulted in 29 cases on the school’s California campus. Earlier this year, in Ohio, a serious outbreak of the mumps hit central Ohio, a state that had already been dealing with a record outbreak of measles.
In July, the Washington State Department of Health reported the first confirmed measles death in the United States in 12 years.
In Crosby’s home province of Nova Scotia, where there are no anti-vaccination campaigns, there has not been an outbreak of the measles.
The province in which Crosby played his junior hockey, Quebec, recently suffered an outbreak of measles that soared to 119 confirmed cases.
The good news for hockey fans is that Sidney Crosby should be back on the ice very soon. Patients diagnosed with the mumps normally recover in about a week. In rare cases, however, serious complications such as meningitis, encephalitis, and deafness might occur.
How long will it be before a vaccine preventable disease presents a much more serious scare? In the 1960’s, a time when Crosby’s still-living predecessors Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull were filling seats at NHL arenas, there were 400 annual deaths and 50,000 annual hospitalizations from the measles.
The anti-vaccination movement is more dangerous and misinformed than it even knows. If the Canadian public can be educated about the risks of bad science through hockey, our national sport might prove educational as well as entertaining.
About The Author /
Cantech Letter founder and editor Nick Waddell has lived in five Canadian provinces and is proud of his country's often overlooked contributions to the world of science and technology. Waddell takes a regular shift on the Canadian media circuit, making appearances on CTV, CBC and BNN, and contributing to publications such as Canadian Business and Business Insider.
If Sidney Crosby had been vaccinated, and he was, what was the point of being vaccinated if he still got the mumps?
the point is less people are being vaccinated, therefore the existence of mumps has increased which then increases its chances of being contracted by others vaccinated or not. i suggest you look up “herd immunity” which the article also happens to bring up..
Hey, I’m all for immunizations, but if we’re getting immunized and still getting the disease, what’s the point?
Either you chose not to read the article or you need a refresher on either reading, or have to work on your reading comprehension. The vaccine is 88% effective, on average. You won’t stop all of the cases, but you restrict the efficacy of the disease to a point where it cannot spread.
the more people immunized then the less chance of the disease existing in the first place. like the article mention, the mumps vaccine is 88% effective which is better than not being protected at all… but less people vaccinated = more people infected = causing that 12% in vaccinated people to be more probable. it’s the anti-vaccination people who are causing others to get the disease. like i said, i suggest looking up herd immunity or re-read the article.
Or, in Sidney’s case, the vaccine was 100% not effective. He must be so glad he got that booster shot not even 2 years ago before he left for the Socchi Olympics. Jenny McCarthy is the anti Christ
if the vaccine is 88% effective then the disease still has a 12% chance per person of being contracted and then spreading throughout the population. If Crosby was vaccinated and still contracted the disease then why is this article working so hard to berrate anti-vaccinators? This article is just using this event as a reason to bash the anti-vaccine movement. I’m all for a vaccine that has been tried, tested and is necessary for preventing deadly diseases but we have become a culture manipulated by constant fear. Big pharma makes a product and sells it like any other manufacturer and if there is no need for their product then there is a very good chance that in order to sell their product they must create a demand as in an outbreak. Speculation? Maybe but it seems awful convenient that every time we have a new flu epidemic there just happens to be millions of vaccines months away from their best before date just sitting on a shelf collecting dust. If I don’t need a pack of gum I’m not going to buy it even if the media is claiming there is an outbreak of bad breath.
100 people
90 are vaccinated; 10 are infected
and lets say 12% of those 90 got unlucky we now have
20 infected; but no one else will ever get it
Now; 100 people
10 are infected, 90 aren’t vaccinated
oh wait; they’re all infected now, my mistake
If you still don’t get it, I’m sorry but you’re an idiot.
Get the vaccinations; no they won’t make you immortal and immune to everything; but they’ll give you a chance, which is better than none.
Of course if golbal epidemics are something you want to be a part of in the future and effecting the lives of this generations children, grandchildren etc is of no concern to you; then yeah go ahead, be an idiot.
Y’know what’s “awfully convenient”? There being outbreaks with vaccinations available; but the general consensus is “hurr durr, vaccinations r le bad” – I wonder why the outbreaks have still happened?
I take offence as a Bruins fan to the goon comment since none of the Bruins players have the mumps thank you very much.
I understand herd immunity and I understand the article but in this instance Crosby was vaccinated and still got infected essentially infecting others. So how, in this case were anti vaccinators causing others to get the disease, in this case it was the vaccinated… My point is this article is hypocritically using this unfortunate event to bash people.
The writer of this article is Hilariously unaware that Sidney Crosby got both doses of his Mumps Vaccine and STILL got the mumps. That glaring error aside, this article is full of bad assumptions and bad information.
Wish I could like this over and over….So right!
The article said he was vaccinated. Also stated that you can catch mumps even if you are vaccinated.
In terms of the flu shot… the influenza virus mutates very rapidly. This means that mutations that help the virus will survive and continue infecting people. So when a vaccine is released it cannot be used the following year because by then the virus is already mutated and the vaccine does not work. This is why you must get a flu shot every year because the flu is different every year. It is not so much influenced by pharma as it is by the government trying to immunize people and reduce the load on the healthcare system. If you don’t get the flu shot will you die? Well not if you are middle aged and healthy but if you are a child or elderly a bad flu can kill you. The flu shot is just a preventative measure with very little negative consequence for getting it.
I laughed at that too… The author must be a Montreal fan. GO HABS GO!
you’re right, he does say it. I missed it my first read through. Though I can’t help but wonder why he wrote a pro-vaccine article with THIS as his example. Not only was Sidney vaccinated, his last booster was a couple years ago, so he is in the range when he should be most protected. This is literally the worst example possible to make a pro-vaccine case.
I blame the pro-vaccine movement for Sidney getting the mumps. It’s a quasi informed movement headed by pseudo celebrities like Penn and Teller. If poor Sidney hadn’t been vaccinated as a child, he would have caught the mumps earlier and been left with life-long immunity, instead of being given multiple boosters to no effect. It’s almost as if the Health nurses were also Bruins fans.
Anti-vaccination movement? Sheer propaganda. There is a laundry list of facts pointing to vaccinations being the reason people catch diseases, not preventing them.
Someone will have to explain to the author of this article how Crosby whom already had his vaccination still contracted the disease…
Easy answer, because the vaccination doesn’t work.
If these people really want to scientifically prove something, keep tabs on the diets of all these elite athletes.. Then start to dissect exactly what their eating correlates to what. You will find stunning similarities
Or he might have died as a child from complications of meningitis or encephalitis and 99.9% of the world would never have heard of him.
Stop all travelling to Africa, India, Japan, South America etc. then if the 10% that are immunized and immunization isn’t effective as they can bring it with them and spread it to others that possibly have had the shot. A little ignorant to think this is the anti-vaccination’s movements fault. The writer of this article…not so savy!
Because if it weren’t for the stupidity of anti-vaxxers, maybe 98% of us would be vaccinated and mumps basically eradicated…so no now would be exposed to it.
Actually I suggest YOU look up herd immunity as herd immunity actually refers to the LIFELONG IMMUNITY you get from getting a disease NATURALLY. Since vaccines are not 100% effective, there is no such thing as herd immunity with them.
Lexs, you lost all credibility when you came storming out of the gates accusing the writer of not knowing Crosby was vaccinated when it was in fact YOU who was hilariously unaware. How do you just ‘miss’ such a vital piece of information when you read? Reading comprehension that of a 10-year-old? If so, you should maybe read everything 2 or 3 times before you post.
With that in mind, it’s not ‘literally the worst example’ for making a pro-vaccine case. The whole point is that when you decide to not get vaccinated, you are nearly 10x as likely to contract the disease. That’s not only bad for you, but it’s bad for the community because you’re endangering other people.
Please, indulge us though on what other bad assumptions and information the author had, though. So far the only bad information was found in your original post about Crosby’s vaccination.
Again, read the article. Vaccines don’t provide full immunity – they just slow the spread of the disease to a degree that treatment becomes manageable.
Think of it this way. You have a bunch of gasoline in a bucket. That’s the mumps. You pour in a bunch of water. That’s the vaccination. It doesn’t stop your bucket from having a flammable substance – it’s just far less flammable.
Make sense?
Eradicate? Do you know how many strains of mumps there is? You have the mentality of head lice, no matter how much we wash those bugs away, they are still around. Even with proper hygiene. Get my point?
Anti-vaxxer not wanting contact with the rest of the world?
Sounds about right.
Your argument is this: “If some people wear seat-belts and still die in car accidents, then why does anyone wear a seat-belt.”
Ever hear the saying “those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw rocks”?
“Look kids, it’s the first Bruins fan to ever say ‘thank you’!”
That’s not my point at all, if you read my comment with any brain cells to understand it, using your “example” it would sound a little more like this. If a person dies in a car crash but he was wearing his seat-belt why are we shitting on the ones who don’t wear seat-belts? It has absolutely nothing to do with this particular car crash… Do you now get the point I’m trying to make about how this article is written?
Do you have any manners whatsoever?
Get my point?
Wow dude, you just don’t get it. People like you are the *exact* reason why patients should follow their doctors’ orders, not those of some pseudo-science spewing ignoramus.
Don’t waste your time trying to educate an anti-vax nutbag. Even his use of the term “pro-vaccine” should set off red flags.
Ummm, wow. Please don’t breed.
Google is your friend. Try to read up a bit on herd immunity. And remember, we trained in this stuff for many years after college, and many years in the real world. Listening to some anti-vaxxer bloviate on wholly unsupported pseudoscience is NOT the same thing.
*sigh* If people were getting vaccinated throughout the populations Sid was exposed to, he would have never caught it in the first place. THAT is herd immunity! Less people can catch it, therefore, less people will have any chance of spreading it.
Kyle: We’ve tried, but you’re truly either stupid or willfully ignorant; possibly both. Please don’t breed.
Nice try, but this is a wasted effort. Dr. Jenny seems to be the preferred source of their medical research. Fcking morons.
Martin: Exactly what is your training in medicine, virology, or epidemiology? Because if you have any at all, you should get a refund from your college and grad/med school. If you don’t, you should probably s t f u before you embarrass yourself even more.
Wow, there are a LOT of idiots posting on this article. And this, folks, is who we are up against when trying to educate the public on something that is seemingly pretty simple. smfh.
Flu is seasonal, hence the timing of the vaccine…
Or he might be sterile and deaf from childhood mumps….idiot
Please read again. Vaccine 88% effective….No error made.
http://www.rescuepost.com/files/june-mumps-suit-1.pdf
If anyone is interested, there’s a lawsuit against Merck for MMR
Ok but you need to think about prob a I kites and percentages. Would you rather play a game of Russian roulette with 10 people or one? With 10 ppl your chance of dying is 10%. With one it’s 50%. But you might die in even the 10% scenario.
Likewise, seat belts increase the PROBABILITY of surviving a car crash, not a guarantee of it. Ipso facto, it’s much smarter to wear one.
And vaccines significantly LOWER the probability of catching said disease, but does not eliminate the risk.
In the case of Crosby…..he got the mumps from someone who got the mumps from someone who got the mumps from blah blah. The point is, if thy ALL had been vaxed, it’s extremely unlikely that that chain would have continued long enough for Crosby to even get it. It would be like continuing to hit 34 on roulette for 5 times in a row. Possible, sure. But very unlikely.
Vaccinations are critical! Not only for people but for animals also & when people forego vaccinations for themselves & their animals THIS is what happens. When you are vaccinated against a disease such as the mumps it does not mean you could not be infected with that virus but it will protect you from becoming far more ill than if you were not vaccinated.
omg, best line ever !
Here is medical doctor, Dr. Nancy Banks, discussing the unhealthy effects of vaccination. Something this reporter may want to take note of. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_yj1T8Qu8
There is also a chance the vaccine itself caused the mumps, as is documented in the mumps vaccine insert. This is also not discussed in the article. Vaccines can and do cause the exact same disease they target. I wonder if the writer read the mumps vaccine insert before writing the article, to discuss the chance that the vaccine caused the disease inside the world’s best hockey player? Do the owners of NHL teams know that vaccines can cause disease in their players, the exact disease the vaccine targets?
Please don’t breed.
You completely missed his point. There would be no outbreak if everyone had the vaccination. The less people who get vaccinated, the more likely they get the disease and then spread it to others. It is actually the best case to counter the nutjob anti-Vaccine movement. It is the unvaccinated causing these outbreaks. it’s simple, if everyone gets the vaccine the disease will be eradicated. What is hard to understand???
You people drive me bananas. Here is the definition of herd immunity!!!
Community Immunity (“Herd Immunity”)
Vaccines can prevent outbreaks of disease and save lives.
When a critical portion of a community is immunized against a contagious disease, most members of the community are protected against that disease because there is little opportunity for an outbreak. Even those who are not eligible for certain vaccines—such as infants, pregnant women, or immunocompromised individuals—get some protection because the spread of contagious disease is contained. This is known as “community immunity.”
Not to be rude, but if you are asking that question, you don’t understand herd immunity.
As the article states, the vaccine is 88% effective. Not 100% – and it is still incredibly contagious. In 2000 mumps was considered eradicated because a very high percentage of the population was immunized resulting in very few people being infected. Now, with more and more people choosing not to vaccinate there are more infections.
That threatens not just those who aren’t vaccinated, but also those who are. That’s what people mean when they say it is the unvaccinated who have caused the outbreak. You need to hit a certain percentage of the population in order to have herd immunity. Some people are not vaccinating their children, therefore herd immunity is threatened and even the immunized get sick.
Gosh I sure wish there were a vaccine to prevent stupid. But then again, you’d probably decide not to get it anyway.
No it doesn’t. Why get on people’s case for not vaccinating (these people are already in the minority at 2-5% of the population) while in reality the vaccine is only 75% effective (as reported on the news last night). Vaccines are only one tool in disease management, not a magic bullet that makes viruses disappear. I little realism and honesty would go a long way to improving vaccination rates.
“There would be no outbreak if everyone had the vaccination.” Unfortunately that simply isn’t the case. Mumps vaccines has a relatively low efficacy rate compared to the small pox or polio vaccine. Even if 100% of the population was vaccinated (as opposed to the current 95%) there would still be isolated outbreaks.
you don’t know that. All those infected in this case were vaccinated, there has been no proof that they came in contact with vaccinated populations.
OR…is it possible that the very vaccines that are suppose to be preventing these diseases are THE VERY ONES THAT ARE IN FACT GIVING THE DISEASE(S) THEMSELVES THE ABILITY TO COME BACK??!! Think about it Einstein! It looks like the writer is quite misinformed…not surprising considering the (MIS) information from mainstream media!
The one thing that surprises me is that no one is asking why there are no booster programs out there. Since mumps requires a booster after 20 years, technically most of the population isn’t immune. Therefore the herd argument falls flat on examination.
The term “herd immunity” was introduced when people were contracting illnesses, recovering, and then receiving full, natural immunity for life.
The power of herd immunity is dwindling because we are toying with how our bodies are designed to react to sickness. We are no longer receiving the powerful natural immunity that our bodies are meant to have.
The vast majority of people recover from the mumps within a week, yet the fear mongers out there will lead you to believe that all of these illnesses will destroy mankind if we stop vaccinating.
If we shed some more light and research on the reactions and ramifications of over-vaccinating, I’ll tell you that looks far more scary to me.
Why are we getting sicker? Why do we have more cancer than any other nation? We eat poor quality GMO food and have one of the highest sugar intake diets in the world, we inject ourselves with poison, and take pain killers, antibiotics, and medication for absolutely everything.
We are not meant to live like this.
Crosby will be just fine, life will go on.
Why can’t anyone here understand Herd Immunity? Do they read it in the article, not understand it, and just not wonder what it means? And then they come here to the comments asking “why vaccinate at all if Syndey got it and it’s not 100% effective?”
He wouldn’t have gotten it if everyone else was vaccinated you idiots.
you comments are an excellent example of the weak logic Kelly is referring to. Just because vaccines in general have done great things, doesn’t mean this or that specific vaccine gets a free ride. All medical procedures need to be constantly monitored, examined and justified.
I don’t know why we have switched to the flu, but your logic is twisted. If millions of people aren’t dying from the flu, and you are otherwise healthy, you are probably better off just getting the flu and letting your natural immunity do its thing. The flu shot here in Canada last year was less than 25% effective. If any other drug was that ineffective, it wouldn’t be allowed on the market.
Being an ass doesn’t make you sound smarter.
It’s a live attenuated virus that people are injected with. If you just have received this vaccine, you are contagious. For 10%-15% of the population the vaccine is ineffective. Some produce anti bodies against the vaccine.
– People have 1 out of the 10 strains of the mumps virus worldwide used in the vaccines. So no we are not all protected against every single strain. While there are undetermined amounts of the strains unaccounted for up to 50+ and not accounting for the mutations constantly happening. So to those that say this disease should be eradicated by now, pull you head out of your … Nature is stronger then us.
I get all that, and yes, I missed the author saying it. To indulge you on the main issues with this article, is that it paints the picture that we are having some kind of major Mumps epidemic, or outbreak, or resurgence. But when you look at the CDC data on mumps: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/mumps.html ….you will notice that Mumps is at an all-time rock-bottom low. there’s very small flare ups, but little else in decades now. This is despite many people not getting the vaccine. Vaccination rates for what is, where I am, called the MMR vaccine, are far from great. Yet the disease is as good as eradicated…and again, as the CDC data shows, this wasn’t exactly a hardcore, super dangerous sickness anyway.
Too late. Stupid is as stupid does. It would be great if the anti vax movement worked like natural selection and essentially wiped itself out, but this idiocy has consequences for the entire population…
There is, it is called education. And you are right, they decide not to get it anyway, and it continues to spread…
Oh ya ? Prove it …. Lmao
Exactly ….. A lot of nice perfect sheep out there , last time I checked , anti-vaccers weren’t making a trillion dollars a year ….. Should be so simple to figure out , it does way more harm than good but if you own the media and lobby the people into power , we are a screwed herd ……
and if you get the flu and hide yourself in isolation, GREAT!. But if you infect 5 others, and those 5 infect 5 others, and so forth, someone can die as a result of your choice to not get the flu shot which would’ve lessened the likelihood of you getting the flu in the first place.
Here’s another article from just today on this exact same thing, that comes to a totally different conclusion: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/mumps-in-nhl_b_6351358.html
You’re fucking stupid…
Typical… adds nothing tto the conversation as to not get reemed out for being stupid, calls other people stupid
“…pro-vaccine movement is…a quasi informed movement headed by pseudo celebrities like Penn and Teller”
OMFG, are you really that stupid? How about it’s an extremely well-informed movement led by doctors and scientists worldwide – you know, the people that go to school and actually understand this stuff? Go adjust your tinfoil hat and spew your garbage on some moon landing conspiracy site. smFh
Wrong! You do not know how many were exposed to the mumps and did NOT get infected due to their vaccination. THINK!!!
you moron! read the research papers, check the clinical trials, look at the body of medical research! There is ABUNDANT proof supporting all of this!
no, actually, you need to check a mirror. You also need to abandon your emotional attachment to this issue and look at the facts. Science is not emotional; it is directed by DATA. This is all supported by overwhelming evidence and solid proof, not to mention well elucidated mechanisms of action for these viruses. What part of this are you not getting?
Yeah brings nothing valuable to the conversation. No data, facts, no thought process. Just hardcore ignorance, insults and slings that stupid word like no tomorrow. Sad people can’t have a discussion while keeping it respectful and civil.
Sorry Caroline, my patience for those who push pseudoscience has worn way too thin to be nice. Vaccinate your kids. Don’t make us all pay for your stupidity. This is not a topic open to opinion unless you are qualified to discuss it. Not all opinions are equally valid. If you have a medical or relevant scientific degree, I’m happy to talk. If you’re just a victim of confirmational bias and unable to think critically, I don’t have time for your input.
Were you beat up as a child? Please refrain from calling people names. Intelligent criticism is respected but you sir, are out of control. Bring on the facts that vaccine have no side affects and the study of cancers on the rise. SIDS death increase since MMR was introduced. I believe vaccines are good for certain circumstances, but please don’t be so narrow minded.
We don’t know that either, we’ll never know that. But at a 80% effective rate getting the mumps is something that can happen to anyone. Think of five people, one of them will be vaccinated and still able to get the mumps. There is no proof that this outbreak is due to the tiny number of people who refuse vaccination.
I understand. Please be respectful!
First of all, this is the internet. Deal with it. If this were an intelligent conversation, then I would post intelligent criticism.
Here’s an example, a bit extreme, but illustrates the point: I go out and get a flu shot and then later eat some bad shrimp and die of food poisoning. The equivalent illogical conclusion could be that the flu shot causes food poisoning-like symptoms and sometimes kills its recipients. Do you have ANY idea what the world looked like before these vaccines???
Also, I’m not narrow at all. I am well-trained with an advanced degree in this field, and decades of experience.
I don’t think you can lay that kind of guilt on someone when the vaccine is only working 50/50 at best. There is a reason a lot of health care providers resist calls for them to get their flu shot.
That tiny number is growing with the anti-vax nutbags. That’s the point.
I will try, but I honestly can’t make any promises. This topic is truly not debatable. This is clearly the result of a combination of lack of scientific/medical education and a keyboard with an internet connection. Despite the fact that we all have wifi does not make our voices of equal validity. Jenny Mccarthy is not a virologist.
plus, your refering to an earlier poster as having the mentality of head lice might not rate too high on the politeness scale! lol. It did make me chuckle though.
Lol! I know right! Sorry to the lady. I’m trying to be diplomatic. It’s hard right! Glad you had a good laugh. Cheers!
and his point was, none of that matters. The more you post the crazier you sound.
Sorry if I’m rude on here, but this pseudoscience-driven misinformation is mind-numbing to me, and it is costing people’s lives. People are wholly uninformed and would rather believe in some big pharma conspiracy than listen to trained physicians and researchers. Trust me, we have no secret society where people offer us money to lie. Those people are quickly removed and shunned from the field. Google Andrew Jeremy Wakefield. He’s the dbag who falsified his paper linking MMR vaccine to autism. That single shameful and fraudulent publication has caused more damage than even he probably ever imagined.
I’m one of the few sane voices here. His point was very clear, and I responded to it. The proof is very clear, supported by clinical studies, epidemiological studies, math, and the outbreak maps easily found online!
What does Vaccinated mean?
vac·ci·nate
ˈvaksəˌnāt/
verb
past tense: vaccinated; past participle: vaccinated
treat with a vaccine to produce immunity against a disease;
Beam me up Scottie, there is no intelligent life here.
Are you implying that a general remark warrants a personal attack?
That’s ludicrous every topic is debatable… It’s easy for someone to dismiss others as tinfoil hat wearing nutjobs without adding any valuable information to a conversation but you have yet to do that so I’ll just assume you’re not the expert you are claiming to be.
Lawrence Solomon’s take on the same issue with more facts ……… http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/mumps-in-nhl_b_6351358.html?utm_hp_ref=tw
http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/judge-lawsuit-against-mercks-mmr-vaccine-fraud-to-continue/#sthash.7PecR1Ff.5yXEKFla.qjtu
Anti-vaxx is not the problem, the vaccines inefficiency is the problem.
Let me answer that with another question: Why wear a condom and take the pill if there’s still a chance you get pregnant?
If someone is wearing their seatbelt and dies in a crash anyway, should we all stop wearing our seatbelts? If someone doesn’t smoke and gets cancer, should we all light up?
Again, you can’t seem to understand statistics. You can’t say Sid’s vaccine was 100% not effective, because for all you know he may have been exposed to the mumps 99 times before and this time he contracted it, making it 99% effective. Truthfully, even that is an oversimplification as it depends more on the nature of the contact, his health on that particular day and one hundred other things.
Sure, ignore the science, but you guys are the problem. The vaccine works, look at the world before the vaccine compared to now. If you choose to believe that the vaccine is not responsible for the huge drop in deaths due to mumps, give me another explanation other than divine intervention. Stop giving into paranoia. I don’t like “big pharma”, but pretty sure the mumps vaccine has been around long enough it’s patent has expired. If so, it can be made by anyone and the generic versions are probably not raking huge profits for anyone. Also, if profits were the goal with mumps, why are we not seeing commercials saying have you had your booster? How are we being manipulated by fear wrt the mumps when I haven’t even heard of it for the past 25 years until this outbreak? And of course there is a flu vaccine waiting, they prepare a new one every year and manufacture it just before flu season. Our own government orders the vaccine and is responsible for putting it on the shelf
Except we know that this did not happen, Crosby did not just get vaccinated nor I am certain did any of the other 14 or more players affected. There may now be many players getting vaccinated and we could keep tabs on how many come down with it, but in any case, this has already been studied to death. A more useful and valid question might be why so many people are willing to grasp at straws to justify their irrational belief that science and medicine are either out to intentionally harm them, or take all their money while delivering nothing.
Translation: You are NOT taking offense to the use of the word “goon” to describe the Bruins, just that they can’t be responsible for transmitting the mumps when they don’t have it. In that case, I agree with you totally.
I havent done either one, and have been with the same man for 18 years. We have 2 beautiful kids which both were planned and conceived right away so no issues with getting pregnant. Another form of birth control is called “PULLING OUT”. I dont have to put chemicals in my body over the years and then when i want to have children it is alot harder to conceive them, and I dont have to cut the pleasure down by a condom. The problem nowadays its all about chemical interference, instead of common sense. Hey its ok if I sleep around cause im on birth control, and we can use a condom…….and thats what we teach now. Instead of using common sense as maybe finding a spouse that has the same goals and you can trust, these things need to be installed into our children. There are an incredible amount of people who are having babies to try and trap men and think they will stick around, instead of actually finding a man that wants the same thing as you do.
These diseases like mumps, measles, polio were almost extinct in the 60’s.. its these anti vaccine people who all got together and decided vaccines were bad and stopped immunizing their children in the 2000. Now thanks to them all of the diseases mentioned earlier and other are making there way back. We need Herd immunity to get it undet control. No vaccine no school, no sports. Just saying…..
I feel like this is me just feeding the fire, but I think it will make sense to you. Mostly because I agree with you, and understand what you’re saying as I am married, and value having a partner that respects their body in that regard. So, as long as we got that covered, I hope that helps!
I know for us personally, we want kids more than anything, but also get that financially (student loans are evil), and where our careers involve us always being busy, it would be really unwise and honestly unfair to the child to have a kid right now. So, my statement, used personally, has nothing to do with a 19 year old at a house party who just had a few too many jello shots. It blows my mind when I know my friends have “vodka babies” and the dad just peaced out.
But to explain what I was getting at, and it is fact: you can be on birth control and use a condom, AND pull out, and still get pregnant. Nothing is 100% in that. So in context, immunizations are great, but they are like the condom – They generally protect you from catching or spreading something (in the case of the condom I simply mean procreating), but they don’t make it so you will never have an issue ever again … It would just be highly unlikely.
If there were no mumps, there would be none to spread. Look at it this way: If I put on a bulletproof vest and walk out into a battlefield, I could still die from getting shot. The vest is not 100%. If we secure the area and I then walk into the area with my vest (or even without it), I’m pretty safe from being killed. Get it?
And yet if we never vaccinated ever, and introduced our children to these diseases at young ages, there would be zero complications and lifetime immunity. I fail to see how us trying to manipulate the natural order of things(IN THIS CASE), is the educated way to go? I was vaccinated, and my child was as well. Having said that, based on new studies and information being released, it just makes logical sense not to vaccinate for things like the mumps. Had we not started this silly vaccination, there would be no risk in the first place.
you are an idiot… plain and simple.. don’t breed.
lol i stopped getting vaccines when i had a horrible reaction when i was younger.. haven’t been sick in like 15 years other than like 1 cold a year.. you retards can say what you want, but you know nothing about what these chemicals do to your body and brain.. just go back to sucking a big dick like you all like to do..
you aren’t a trained physician, you are an inbred nutjob. you actually think pharmaceuticals are good? those companies are like oil companies.. everything is derived from natural substances and have chemicals added to make you dependent on them so the jew leeches can make maximum profit.. they don’t give a flat fuck about you.
To those dithering about But. . . But . . . But Crosby was vaccinated & he got the mumps anyway!! 2 things: Anyone under 40 with a smallpox vax scar? No? . . . Why? Because the vaccination eliminated smallpox! Vaccines work. 2) 12% of folks don’t sero-convert, but even when that happens, vaccinated folks tend to get a milder form of the disease.
lol maybe you shouldn’t spend so much time writing useless babble on vaccine publications, and do a little research on actual vaccines and the dangers of vaccines.. people don’t die because they don’t get vaccinated.. people die because they aren’t exposed to enough disease when they were younger and their bodies can’t handle it..
lol the only people who share your thoughts are fucking dirty leeches who have stocks in some drug company… other than that you are on your own.
to all these keyboard renegades who claim they know everything about vaccines and spend so much time defending them on social media sites, kiss my ass.. you are a global cancer.. its pieces of shit like you who make me wish that anyone with pharmaceutical stock loses everything.. hopefully at that point, they have nothing to live for, and end their lives.
for those of you idiots who have no clue.. vaccines do nothing.. people get sick all the time having been vaccinated, where as alot of people who don’t get vaccinated do not get sick very often, and when they do it is not life threatening.. most of these diseases they want to vaccinate you for are compound chemicals themselves created in a lab.. go figure.. how many of you stupid clowns own drug stock i wonder?
Apparently you didn’t read that article. It’s a classic case of abusing statistics to prove a point. It casually makes light that 85% of the population, when vaccinated, respond with immunity. It calls the vaccine a “dud” because 15% don’t respond. And that’s not going into the fact that it makes it sound like you have to have life-long vaccines when you only have to have two and with those two there is 88% immunity among the populace. It also cites all the cases that catch the diseases but doesn’t add in the statistics of how many of those people were vaccinated (guess what, most of them weren’t). Also, it’s still possible to catch the mumps but it’s much much harder because there will be tons of people around you which are completely immune and have no way to pass it to somebody who doesn’t respond as well to the vaccines. That’s herd immunity.
You just bought that whole article hook, line and sinker and didn’t bother to pay attention to any of the very troublesome wording or identify it in the least. Of course you’re the same person who didn’t even realize the author of this article mentioned that the NHL player was actually vaccinated and you could still catch the mumps after being vaccinated. You ran to the comment section before you had even read the full article, or worse, you didn’t have the brains to process what was said and now you’re trying to influence people into doing something stupid.
Do what the previous poster said. Look up herd immunity. A vaccination isn’t the same thing as immunity. Some people might get immunity, others will be extremely resistant, some will be more resistant and others the vaccine will have no effect. What happens is since a lot of people are immune and others are resistant it means that the people who can catch it will have a much much lower chance of catching the disease since few others around have it. That’s the basic principle of herd immunity. People who can’t get the vaccines due to allergies or have compromised immune systems are at extreme risks because certain people don’t believe in vaccinations.
So not everyone will be as covered as somebody else. But as long as most of us who can get covered does it protects those who can’t be protected. Not getting a mumps vaccination and then walking into an hospital…well, think about that and what it means.
This a a dangerous practice, and actually provides virtually the same immunity as a vaccine, but please tell us more about how you put your child through hell so you could make him as immune as a quick shot at the doctors would do.
Misinformation is dangerous. Measles kills 2 in every 1000(just quick numbers on my part) where as the vaccine will have 1 allergic reaction for every million vaccinated, while offer almost the same immunity. Measles vaccine doesn’t last as long. Some other vaccines actually are better then immunity then natural, such as hib and tetanus.
That is ridiculous. As a family we strongly believe in all immunization. When our youngest was 2 months, she contracted pertussis. Too young to have had her immunization against it. We, as parents, had no idea what was wrong with her. Our family physician and 2 other family physicians didn’t diagnose it correctly. It was only when we frantically drove her to a larger medical facility did we happen upon a paediatrician who instantly diagnosed her and immediately put her into quarantine for 10 days. Our physicians didn’t recognize Pertussis because they hadn’t seen it before (this was 11 years ago). Have no doubt “childhood illness’s” can be very serious. My child would have died. Is that what you call manipulating the natural order of things??
Its these crazy non-vaccine people that keep the mumps around and let it get stronger. He had the mumps shot and a booster but a few doctors have said the virus may have mutated due to the non-vaccine movement children getting sick and letting the virus get strong enough to bypass the original vaccine. Doctors and scientists specialize in these fields… Why aren’t we listening to them? But we’ll rush out and buy Pro Active because Jennifer Love-Hewitt uses it… I don’t get it.
Well, another author pollutes the Interwebs with ignorant garbage…
Yes, you can, which simply proves the shot is a waste of time and money.
The only nutbags are the ones overdosing on the pro-poison Kool-aid…
You can accomplish the same thing without the toxic sludge through building a healthy immune system, stupid.
Vaccines are far from a magic bullet. If fact, they’re more like a blank in a malfunctioning pistol playing Russian Roulette.
One can still acquire, carry, and transmit a disease while still being vaccinated against it, stupid.
Most doctors are clueless.
No we call that dumb pedatricians…
Natural immunity == lifelong =/= vaccinated == short-term. Get your facts straight, stupid.
Herd immunity is a myth invented to sell toxic shots.
Straw man much?
that may have actually been the dumbest thing i’ve ever heard.. the vaccine didn’t exist until after the outbreak… obviously.. unless conspiracy theorists are right and these diseases are being created in a lab to try to scare people into getting their bodies consistently pumped with vile chemicals so people can make a fortune on the stock market…
You better return your degree to Pamida for a refund and a large crate of TP, because you are FOS.
More straw men, eh?
People die. It’s part of life.
Try again. First, the disease reduction predated the toxic shots and directly followed improvements in sanitation and hygiene. Second, they don’t resist disease because they wear off and mutations happen. Third, the shots are not compatible with the body’s natural immune system. (Most pro-poisoners on here have no glue about immunoglobulin activities!)
lol and funded by bill gates.. get a fucking life dude.. vaccines are horrible.. you need to build a childs immune system from a young age, by letting them play in the mud every once in a while.. sounds like you haven’t done any research on the matter whatsoever.. and are really just some useless drug advertiser.. regular flu.. swine flu.. any kind of flu.. or whatever the hell they tell you to get vaccinated for are human created diseases that are engineered in laboratories to be countered by other drugs.. its not a conspiracy, its fact..
Feel free to expand on Th1 and Th2 activities in the Ig5 reaction, then.
SOMEBODY GETS IT! THANK YOU!
Please provide the citations for these studies.
its hilarious that some vaccines actually increased the number of cases for some specific diseases.. keep promoting your drugs though.. are you going to force everyone to have an rfid chip injected in to their bodies also?
Please tell me what your background is. You’re quick to put down doctors and researchers, so I sense that you have some personal issue with them. Otherwise I don’t understand how you could be against vaccines that have saved millions of lives in our very recent history. Did you flunk out of med school or something, so now you’re mad at the world? Or do you just like to buy into conspiracy theories since they can’t be disproven directly?
First, there is no conspiracy. Period. It would be logistically impossible to perpetrate that scale of conspiracy. Absolutely absurd to even bring up.
The odds are significantly less if a person has been vaccinated that they will ever be in a position to transmit it. Why is that so hard to understand. I really must be missing the point of protecting the majority of the population understanding that the less people who can get a disease, the less people will be able to transmit the disease to others. Which part are you not getting?
These anti-vaccine have a deep unconscious issue with authority. Of this they are completely unaware. It is called a narcissistic unresolved oedipal complex. That is the real reason they will not listen to the authority of the medical-scientific community.
I used to be an anti-vaccine fanatic. Through a strange set of circumstances, I was humbled and seen the error of my thinking. However, there is nothing you can do to convince the anti-vaccine people that they are mistaken. All you can do is vaccinate yourself so that you are less likely to contact the disease and are therefore less likely to spread it. But they don’t even believe that. It is called anti-establishment. It comes from an unconscious unresolved oedipal complex. We all have it. However, I came to see that some authority is good for us. If one thoroughly checks out all the material written against vaccinations, one will find that it is based on non factual data. But of course the anti-vaccination people don’t believe that either. So I live and let live. It is what it is.
It is obvious you are an ignoramus. the last vestige of the ignorant is to insult. I can see by your posts you can only defend your preposterous position by insulting those that disagree.If you don’t want to get your kids vaccinated that is your choice, but don’t complain if your child is one of those that unfortunately is a worst case scenario. You can ignore the facts if you want but I won’t stoop to personal insults.
Check the facts on the number of children that died, and the number that became severely ill before you say it was a waste. Mumps is not a serious disease for most who get it, but many have severe or fatal reaction. Your ignorance costs lives.
Why Doctors Aren’t Shocked That Mumps Have Hit the NHL
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/mumps-in-nhl_b_6351358.html
You’re saying that 100% of unvaccinated people will get the illness in question.. If that were true the human race would have been extinct long ago.
He got a booster in January and the team manager was quoted saying that the rest of the team got boosters a few weeks ago. Now, after having gotten live virus vaccines a few weeks ago, they’re having an outbreak of one of those illnesses. Shocking.
I would like to comment… your the stupid one Tannim. I just want to mention that in fact you do not get vaccinations to prevent the disease, and if this is what you believe you are grossly misinformed. You get vaccinations not for yourself, but to protect the individuals in our society who do not possess the immunity to fight these infections. if your answer to that is that they do not matter, maybe you should start reflecting on your own life, cause their life is every bit as valuable as yours, if you don’t believe that, you are just a narcissistic ass. before you come on here and try sound all intelligent and educated, maybe get some education and use it to become intelligent, and understand that vaccines are to protect those who cannot fight the infection, not the ones who can. protecting the ones who can will minimize the spread, therefore offering something called Herd Protection.
Excerpt from an article from earlier this year, about how Merck’s mumps vaccine is a fraud:
According to the whistleblowers’ court documents, Merck’s misconduct was far-ranging: It “failed to disclose that its mumps vaccine was not as effective as Merck represented, (ii) used improper testing techniques, (iii) manipulated testing methodology, (iv) abandoned undesirable test results, (v) falsified test data, (vi) failed to adequately investigate and report the diminished efficacy of its mumps vaccine, (vii) falsely verified that each manufacturing lot of mumps vaccine would be as effective as identified in the labeling, (viii) falsely certified the accuracy of applications filed with the FDA, (ix) falsely certified compliance with the terms of the CDC purchase contract, (x) engaged in the fraud and concealment describe herein for the purpose of illegally monopolizing the U.S. market for mumps vaccine, (xi) mislabeled, misbranded, and falsely certified its mumps vaccine, and (xii) engaged in the other acts described herein to conceal the diminished efficacy of the vaccine the government was purchasing.”
These fraudulent activities, say the whistleblowers, were designed to produce test results that would meet the FDA’s requirement that the mumps vaccine was 95 per cent effective. To the whistleblowers’ delight, the judge dismissed Merck’s objections to the case proceeding, finding the whistleblowers had plausible grounds on all of the claims lodged against Merck.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html
logistically impossible?? you must be smoking some crazy crack.. people take what doctors give them.. doctors give their patients what they are told is good for them, when realistically any drug has added harmul chemicals to increase dependency.. the real conspiracy is why things like smoking aren’t banned when they are 100% known to cause premature death.. i guess its because tobacco companies and investors have no power or influence over anything right? how the fuck are doctors supposed to know exactly whats in a vaccine that was produced by someone else? its not like they are scientists that can test for every unnecessary ingredient.. what are these lives that vaccines have saved?
Still waiting for citations…
yeah don’t go crying to the drug company when your child dies from a vaccine or gets autism after it fucks his brain and body chemistry up. lol for the off chance that he might not die from a disease that the chances of him contracting are low anyway..
your ignorance is astounding. My 3 kids received all vaccines and have never contracted the mumps or measles . I had the Mumps and measles as a child, as did my 5 siblings. Thankfully, the vaccine prevented my children from the risks. You may want your kids to risk a serious case of mumps or measels, etc. I don’t. that is your choice.
i never had the mumps.. never got vaccinated for the mumps.. nor has anyone in my family ever had the mumps or was vaccinated for the mumps.. actually, come to think of it i’ve never seen anyone with the mumps.. the reason your kids haven’t gotten it is because they haven’t been around anyone with the disease.. obviously you are an idiot and didn’t read the part of the article where he was vaccinated for mumps..
I read the article and the understand that you can still get the disease even when vaccinated. I guess when you have no rational argument you resort to childish insults. Good luck,hopefully your family will never get these diseases and suffer a worse case scenario. I have not known anyone with the mumps,and where I live the vaccine in common.
I love reading these arguments about vaccines it’s very amusing. Case and point, if everyone was vaccinated the odd’s of any 1 person catching any of these illnesses is less than 5%. So before you start spouting off your anti vaccination propaganda please get your facts right and know what you are talking about. Because it’s the non vaccinated who catch it first and spread it to the vaccinated majority. Essentially in the end, it will be the bull headed fools who bring a collapse to humanity. Personally for the safety of the majority of the population I fully believe vacinations should be mandatory and people who refuse can be deported to some secluded island.
I have significant hearing loss from getting chicken pox as an adult – the vaccine was unavailable when I was a child. I would have stood in line for hours to get that vaccine, if it would have lessened not just the symptoms, but the damage it caused.
So before you lump everyone who believes in getting vaccinated into the “sucking a big dick” category, perhaps you should educate yourself. I suspect the reason you had a reaction was due to the egg products that were in the vaccine, not the vaccine itself.
There are rare occasions where people do react severely to the vaccine. Does that mean that no one should ever get vaccinated for polio, whooping cough, measles, or mumps? Can you imagine the illnesses we would have to deal with, and the cost to our health system if we didn’t vaccinate?
Be very careful before using a blanket assumption.
I hope you never take Aspirin, Advil, Tylenol, or any cough syrup, or even vitamins… because “how the fuck are doctors supposed to know exactly whats (sic) in a vaccine (insert “any medication”) that was produced by someone else.”
That isn’t even a rational argument. You could use that same argument to not buy groceries at the grocery store, clothing, or any other product.
Actually, no you can’t. If that was true, no one would get polio, whooping cough, HIV, allergies, colds, flu, or any other infection. It is impossible to protect yourself completely.
The “getting autism from vaccinations” was a fraudulent study – do your homework. It was a single study, which couldn’t be repeated, and to which the original researched admitted he doctored the results…. now who is believing nonsense?
Can you provide me with the peer-reviewed scientific studies to prove this?
honestly, you are an idiot. if you lived in the early to mid 1900s you would be begging for vaccines. Do your homework http://johnwollerjrontheautismepidemic.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/figure-7-92.jpg
Zero complications eh? Look up how many died from polio in the past.
Hokay. Let’s use your own numbers to show why you’re wrong. Not that your numbers are correct (they’re not) but to show you that, even using your own logic, vaccinations are good.
IF the vaccine is 75% effective, that means for every eight people that WOULD get the mumps, only two people are. That means that only one of four is spreading the disease, instead of four out of four. Which means that it spreads at only 25% effectiveness.
Follow me?
Now, that’s assuming everyone has the vaccination.
IF only half the people are vaccinated, that means, using that number, that for every eight people that would get sick without vaccinations, assuming half vaccination rates, five out of eight are getting sick. So, using your own numbers, half vaccination rates would mean the disease is spreading at more than around sixty percent effectiveness.
No one has said that vaccines are the be-all and end-all. But I find it staggering that people have stopped vaccinating kids. It blows my mind that, in North America today, kids are dying of illnesses that were basically irradicated in my mother’s time.
Vaccinations are important.
And how do you accomplish the same thing? Do you go up to sick people and get ill all the time?
Eating healthy does not build up antibodies in your bloodstream. And I find the idea that I should expose myself to every illness (and the risks that this brings on) to “build up a healthy immune system”.
If I have to constantly be sick so that I can be “healthy”, well, that sounds pretty stupid, doesn’t it?
Read your history. Look at the numbers of people that used to die from common illnesses, and compare to most of the latter half of the twentieth century. Doing some very basic math, you can see that vaccines played a huge role in that.
I can assume you can do basic math, right? You have enough fingers and toes, right? Or did you lose them to some sort of childhood illness in your quest to strengthen your immune system?
You want a conspiracy? how’s this – the pharmaceutical companies are funding all this “anti-vaccine” stuff, because they know how useful vaccines are in controlling disease, and they could make a lot more money selling drugs treating the disease as opposed to a one or two-time shot that prevents the disease from occurring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnrKK_4jAY4. and it is.
…you really don’t have a F%$^ing clue, do you?
No you can’t quit trolling
Either you’re a troll or a moron but reading your comments have been delightfully hilarious.
Trolololol
Silly vaccinations! We should stick to rampant infant mortality rates to save us!
lol nonsense is actually believing a drug company who claims it was a fraudulent study after they stopped using thiomersal in their vaccines.. which contains high levels of mercury.. dangerous to humans.. it wasn’t only one guy.. this is hilarious.. keep telling me more..
ok. i said they are designed to create dependency.. not death.. if everyone just kept dying, obviously its not a good plan.. and just keep comparing food that grows from the ground or on an animal to something that is artificially created in a laboratory and funded by one of the worlds biggest capitalists.. so i don’t have to waste my time with you. by the way, yes i do take advil or aspirin sometimes, and people can go through a bottle of advil in a day without realizing it.. not to mention the people who crush up higher concentrations of advil to snort it.. i wonder why lol
yea,smart one! How did he get Mumps if he’s vaccinated? One more proof that vaccine doesn’t do anything but PROFIT to pharmaceutical industry!
lol you actually think vaccines cure infant mortality? are you fucking nuts? vaccines aren’t jesus christ our lord and savior.. go tell that to the bunch of africans crawling though the desert looking for food while getting pecked by a vulture.. or getting shot in the face or bombed.. silly idiot person.
lol all this shows me that less people die from disease today then the early 1900’s.. it doesn’t even say anything about vaccines.. i guess none of this can be attributed to the fact that world wars brought foreign diseases that peoples immune systems weren’t programmed to handle.. and i guess the fact that overall sanitation is 100% better than it was in the early 1900s.. there are many things that prevent spreading disease.. greedy drug companies do not deserve the credit.
i was exposed to chicken pocks as an infant.. never had a vaccination.. never got it again.. you are supposed to have it when you are younger.. if you didn’t, your parents didn’t do their job properly.. sorry, it is their fault you have significant hearing loss.
where are all these people who don’t get vaccinated dying?? please give me some kind of numbers or statistics of death tolls attributed to not having vaccines in north america today.. please.
authority? naw actually it comes from credible scientists that get no exposure.. kind like when real scientists tell us that global warming is an issue, yet no one actually does anything about it.. you know why? because people in congress have lots of oil and drug stock and can easily influence the market.. lol.. authority.. ok there mr i love being ruled with an iron fist..
Actually, it isn’t their fault – I did have it as a child, and again as an adult (and yes, that is possible – it happens occasionally, where someone doesn’t build up an immunity to it naturally). I am not sure how you can blame my parents for that.
Actually this article nails it on the head. http://m.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/vaccine-myth-busting-can-backfire/383700/
Delves into the defiant personality trait that when confronted with the truth that contradicts what our ego identifies with, we hang on to the falsehood with even more gusto! Not many humans get humble enough to learn this and apply it to their lives.
This article nails it on the head. http://m.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/vaccine-myth-busting-can-backfire/383700/
Delves into the defiant personality trait that when confronted with the truth that contradicts what our ego identifies with, we can hang on to the falsehood with even more gusto!
Your argument is still hypocritical.
You had a reaction to a vaccine, so all vaccines are “bad.”
Yet you are willing to take medications made by those same capitalist companies, medications that are synthetics, and also cause reactions in some people. Check out Phizer – they make those vaccines you are so afraid of, and also make Advil…
You can’t have it both ways.
how do you sound like such a fucking asshole when you write things? it must come from being conceived by assholes in a place full of assholes.. lol to say you are 10X more likely to get the mumps then someone who is vaccinated.. crosby could have gotten it from someone who was also vaccinated.. so to say someone exersizing their rights not to have their body pumped full of chemicals is the reason for crosby getting the mumps is a fucking joke.. sorry, you are a joke of a person to me.
lol what about my argument is hypocritical? i said vaccines are bad,not because i had a reaction to it, but because contrary to what you think, they actually fuck up your immune system.. children have to be exposed to diseases like chicken pocks when they are younger regardless of vaccinations, because that is the way the immune system works.. vaccines create a chemically imbalanced immune system that is irreparable.. drugs like aspirin are temporary pain reliefs in small doses, but its not something you constantly take when nothings wrong..
OK, I will.
Check out the CDC website regarding the non-relationship between vaccines and autism:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism/
There was ONE study showing a link between autism and vaccines. It was written by a Mr. Andy Wakefield. This paper was proven fraudulent, and was subsequently withdrawn by the highly respected medical journal, Lancet. His report blamed the MMR vaccine (vaccination for measles, mumps and rubella) for causing autism spectrum disorder (ASD).
AND, this study only used 12 PATIENTS as the basis – hardly an adequate base to formulate a definitive decision.
There were a couple dozen other studies that used this one as their basis, that also tried to convince people that vaccines caused autism – they were later shown to be flawed as well. As
well, none of those studies showed a definitive cause and effect, but merely that there was “a possibility.”
Later, British journalist Brian Deer, an experienced investigative reporter, tracked down and interviewed the original participants in
Wakefield’s study. He also compared medical records with what was published in the 1998 study. It turns out that Wakefield wasn’t just misinterpreting data — he was making much of it up.
Since that time, there are more than 100 peer-reviewed papers completely dismissing and debunking any link between any vaccine and any type of autism.
Want some clinical links?
Taylor LE, Swerdfeger AL, Eslick GD. Vaccines are not associated with autism: An evidence-based meta-analysis of case-control and cohort studies. Vaccine. 2014 May 6. pii: S0264-410X(14)00636-7. doi: 0.1016/j.vaccine.2014.04.085. [Epub ahead of print] PubMed PMID: 24814559.
http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(13)00144-3/pdf
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/00_pdf/CDCStudiesonVaccinesandAutism.pdf
(this one has a list of studies that show vaccines do not cause autism)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24814559
http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/good-investigative-reporting-may-finally-debunk-the-myth-that-vaccines-cause-autism-201101061067
I could add pages of these. (and the links contain the peer-reviewed studies with references – feel free to follow those)
And, the theory that thimiserol, which has mercury, is the culprit, why don’t adults who have mercury fillings get autism?
Please, provide the evidence to support your claims.
hmmm.. pretty vital piece of information you left out there.. especially considering you said you didn’t get a chicken pocks vaccine when you are younger.. implying that you never had the disease in the first place.. most people don’t get chicken pocks vaccine after they’ve had it.. and usually have no problems later in life.. except for very rare cases.. something doesn’t add up with your story.. sorry.
” i said vaccines are bad,not because i had a reaction to it, but because contrary to what you think, they actually fuck up your immune system”
Can you provide some evidence to support this?
Apparently, you don’t understand how vaccines work…Your body can make antibodies in two ways: by getting the disease or by getting the vaccine. Getting the vaccine is a much safer way to make antibodies without having the suffering of the disease itself and the risk of becoming disabled or even dying.
Your opinion of “fucking up the immune system” is just an opinion – not based on any evidence or fact.
What was the vital piece I left out?
I got chicken pox – not once, but twice – which is possible, and has happened to lots of people.
There was no implication there – you made assumptions – your fault, not mine.
You are the one who chose to blame my parents, when in fact, there was no evidence to support that. You are the one who chose to make assumptions.
And, my argument was that had the vaccine been available WHEN I WAS A CHILD I would have gotten it… which would have given me a better chance of NOT getting it, or getting it twice. A guarantee? Not, but a chance I would have been willing to take, given the alternative.
So, the “doesn’t add up” is your assumptions trying to place blame on someone else, rather than looking at your own inaccurate misinterpretations, that is all.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/G/cases-deaths.pdf
OK, so provide the peer-reviewed studies and links to support your claim “do a little research on actual vaccines and the dangers of vaccines.. people don’t die because they don’t get vaccinated.. ”
Actually, people DO die because they don’t get vaccinated… do the research on polio and whooping cough….
Still waiting for your peer-reviewed scientific study links to support your “facts”
“some vaccines actually increased the number of cases for some specific diseases”
Please provide links to the peer-reviewed studies and abstracts for this comment. I would like to read them.
I have looked through your comments, and you have been asked by others, and me, to provide the peer-reviewed studies and abstracts to support your position.
Please provide the links to the studies that support your comments “disease reduction predated the toxic shot” and “they don’t resist disease because they wear off and mutations happen” and “the shots are not compatible with the body’s natural immune system.”
I would like to read those studies.
This is a chart simply stating cases/deaths from the disease. It doesn’t show the data if they were vaccinated or not vaccinated. Therefore these statistics do not reflect the true relation to the question. Nor will it ever be available as this is something that would never be funded, through government and pharmaceutical companies. For example: My niece got pertussis, she was immunized. Could have died and added to this chart.
Good point Caroline – I didn’t look close enough – I will do more research.
Look into the Japanese way of vaccination. Delayed vaccination works better. We suffocate our babies here injected them at 2/4/6/12/18 months. Not giving them enough time to work the natural immune system. Their research is very interested. They no longer vaccinate for mumps. (Well last time I checked anyhow) So the risk of travellers to and from increase 100 fold. I just find the headline ignorant.
Clueless. Clear case of cognitive dissonance.
http://japanhealthinfo.com/child-health-and-childcare/vaccination/
You’ve totally missed my point and are making the same old tired and weak arguments that make vaccines advocates look foolish.
First of all I’m not saying that vaccinations aren’t important, rather I’m saying that medical science isn’t a realm where blind faith should be applauded. If you are looking for something to believe without being able to ask questions or make a personal choice, there are a number of radical religions for you to choose from.
The good news is no one is dying of Mumps. Actually mumps was never a big killer. You are making the mistake of applying a broad conversation on vaccines to a specific conversation about one vaccine. That’s a move that discredits the rest of the your statement.
Now lets look at your assumptions. “Assuming half vaccination rates,” vaccination rates are over 95%, my point is that doesn’t matter for the mumps because most doctors only consider the mumps vaccine to be 80% effective (this article says 88% but I’ve seen as low as 75% reported). And none of that really matter because there is no public health campaign to get the booster shots to the population. As a result almost no one is protected against mumps.
But you seems to be all about the numbers so lets restrict the conversation to children who are almost all (95-98%) receiving the MMRS vaccine cocktail. Using only 8 children in your argument, simplifies the math to the point where its not at all useful for discussion. So lets make it 20. You have 20 kids, 19 are vaccinated 1 has crazy anti-vaxxer parents. Now an outbreak comes along, over the 20 kids 14 don’t get sick because the vaccine worked, 5 get sick even though they are vaccinated, and 1 gets sick because his parents don’t believe in vaccines. Is it now logical to say that the 1 kid is the cause of the 5 vaccinated kids getting sick? No its not, in fact there is only a 17% chance that it was the non-vaccinated child who brought the virus into the group.
Basically any time someone says, “shut up because science has proved x” I get nervous. That is not the way science works. Almost everything that we once believed, including the ideas of science, have been overturned by further study. Its time to stop fear-mongering people, and let vaccination procedures and regiments mature in a way that puts people’s health above concerns for time and money.
wow, even less infections that I thought. Makes you wonder what all the fuss is about.
You can very clearly see an upswing near the end there – as vaccination rates are decreasing. It’s not going to ever go into the “was this person vaccinated?” question, because, ultimately, it’s not all that relevant. To repeat the mantra – you can get sick when you’re vaccinated! All they do is slow the disease’s spread.
Dude, the percentages of increase are pretty high. And tell that to the mother of a dead child.
and the mother of the vaccine injured child? What are you telling them? Vaccination rates in Canada are very well documented at 98.2%. Hardly a crisis.
Caroline, Although I see your point, it doesn’t address john kimble’s request “where are all these people who don’t get vaccinated dying.”
He appears to be of the belief that vaccinations do not protect the
general public and do more harm than good. (read some of his other comments to see more of his opinions on that).
I completely disagree with the opinion that vaccinations do more harm than good, that they “fuck with the immune system” (his words, not mine) and “you retards can say what you want, but you know nothing about what these chemicals do to your body and brain.. just go back to sucking a big dick like you all like to do.” (again, his words, not mine).
And, with regard to the link I posted earlier – I did a little more
research. The polio vaccine was introduced in the US in 1955, and in 1963 became widespread. Now, let’s look at the population, polio rates, and death rates:
1950:
Population 152 million
Incidents of Polio: 33300 (0.0219% of population)
Deaths from Polio: 1904 (0.0013% of total population)
1963:
Population 189 million
Incidents of Polio: 396 (0.0002% of population)
Deaths from Polio: 41 (0.00002% of population)
With the introduction of the vaccine, incidents in the general
population were 104X greater than after, and deaths were 58X greater.
When I have more time, I will look into this a little more.
Here is a peer-reviewed study showing that mortality rates are lower with vaccinations:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23790993
And here is a good article, showing why we should still vaccinate, even though disease levels are low:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm
Some quotes from the above article:
– Nearly everyone in the U.S. got measles before there was a vaccine, and hundreds died from it each year. Today, most doctors
have never seen a case of measles.
– More than 15,000 Americans died from diphtheria in 1921, before there was a vaccine. Only one case of diphtheria has been
reported to CDC since 2004.
– An epidemic of rubella (German measles) in 1964-65 infected 12½ million Americans, killed 2,000 babies, and caused 11,000
miscarriages. In 2012, 9 cases of rubella were reported to CDC.
More recently, a 2013 outbreak in Alberta was caused by un-vaccinated children being exposed in other countries, and bringing that virus back to Alberta:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/low-immunization-rate-leads-to-measles-outbreak/article15199752/
and the cost of that outbreak
http://www.calgaryherald.com/health/Measles+outbreak+declared+Calgary+Edmonton+central+Alberta/9788118/story.html
(cost to taxpayers $1.4 million)
So, back to john kimble’s comments… if vaccinations really do cause more harm than good, both from an illness and death standpoint, and a financial standpoint, please – provide me some links on that, so I can read them, because what I am finding doesn’t support that.
Until your kid gets polio… or is blind from measles… or goes deaf…. then you will see what the fuss is about….
So, given your argument…. if we didn’t vaccinate for chicken pox, and introduced our children to chicken pox at a young age, there would be no complications, and lifetime immunity…
WRONG – I am living breathing proof that your argument is invalid.
There was no chicken pox vaccine when I was young.
I was exposed to chicken pox as a child, and got it.
Was exposed again as an adult, and got it again, and have SIGNIFICANT hearing loss because of it.
So, given your theory, I should have been exposed, gotten the illness, recovered with no issues, and then lived happily ever after.
Hmmmm…. nope… not seeing your theory at all.
Oh wait – you will argue that my environment or my parents, or some genetic mutation that we know nothing about is to blame, or maybe some alien invasion, or a conspiracy theory….
First, mumps isn’t a big killer. That is true. But it can have lasting rider effects that SUCK. I went to school with a guy whose face was mangled from a case of the mumps. Lots of scars, and the upper part of his lip was semi-fused to his nose. I’m 31. I’m not that old. So yeah, mumps can suck, and why suffer that if you can avoid it, or reduce the chances?
I was using basic math for the simple reason that, well, it’s simple. It’s easy to follow. And using your numbers, again, if only one in twenty don’t get vaccinated,they’re still more than tripling the chance of bringing it into the group. And if two out of twenty don’t….
Vaccines don’t exist in a vacuum. They exist simply to limit the flow of a disease, to prevent its spread. At no point was I saying that vaccinations are going to end the disease from spreading. All I am saying is that, hey, they’re going to help.
Just before I was born (or maybe just after – I’m a bit spotty on the history, as I’m no immunologist), Smallpox was irradicated. A huge killer of humans was completely destroyed. Vaccines played a huge part in this, but admittedly not the only part. And yet, sadly, they’re not as trusted as they used to be, as anti-government paranoia spreads in the West (for a couple of quite valid reasons, but that’s an entirely different debate). This means that diseases that used to be quite under control are now spiking again in popularity – Mumps being one (454 in 2008, 1991 in 2009, and 2612 in 2010!), Pertussis being another.
Which is a very alarming statistic.
Ultimately, you are right about science. You have to look at the numbers. And from where I stand, there’s few good scientific reasons to avoid the vaccine based on the numbers. Most every anti-vaccine argument I’ve seen is based off fear or ignorance. And, not to be rude, but so is yours. Saying it’s only “75% effective” is kind of funny. Because my thoughts are “75% effective!? Holy crap, that’s a lot of people we could protect!”
Read bella’s comment again…. she never said “cure” – you misinterpreted her comment. Perhaps you should read the comment again before you accuse someone else of being the silly idiot person.
Infant mortality is primarily linked to low birth weights, and a multitude of factors affect that, one being parent health. When that parent is not vaccinated and gets an illness like measles during pregnancy greatly increases risk of spontaneous abortion or stillbirth, or pneumonia or other issues in the mother.
You are very fast to call others names, but you have yet to provide any evidence to support your opinion.
So, until you provide links to peer-reviewed studies and abstracts, you are just being a troll.
Jenny McCarthy is a twitscicle who jumped on the Autism bandwagon. She should have done more research before she started her campaign.
Being vaccinated does not stop you from carrying the disease and “herd immunity” in regards to vaccines is a myth. Please stop propagating paranoia and misinformation.
https://gianelloni.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/the-myth-of-herd-immunity/
I’ve been reading this thread and have some comments. First, the original papers that said vaccines caused autism were not only wrong, they were totally bogus. Wakefield made up the data (he didn’t misinterpret anything, he just made up numbers). The papers were retracted and he lost his medical license. In the ensuing years, thousands of papers about research involving millions of children have shown no such effects from vaccinations. What the anti-vax people don’t understand is that science is not a democracy. One person’s opinion, opinion not backed by scientific research, does not equal the result of those thousands of studies. It doesn’t matter if you are a semi-celebrity or not, your opinion is just that, an opinion. It’s not reality, it’s not science, it’s not equal to valid scientific research. And you actually can eradicate a disease by vaccinating a sufficient number of people, even if the vaccine is not 100% effective. Look at smallpox. Decrease the infection rate enough by vaccinating enough people and the disease finds no way to propagate itself. The problem with many anti-vax proponents is that there is no evidence that will convince them. They are not open to discussion, they are only open to people who agree with them. Facts are never important to them.
Vaccines are not chemicals.
Actually, that is not true. If 100% were vaccinated and the efficacy were high enough (and it is), the disease would eventually die out. Someone who actually got it would have fewer people to pass it to.
I’m not sure that’s realistic in the real world, doesn’t seem to be the case given the historical record. After all the diseases came from somewhere, outbreaks are always a risk. That’s why you can’t just rely on vaccines. As long as people are working closely with animals there will always been some risk or known or new diseases coming out. Proper sanitation, and personal hygiene are just as important. Each disease needs to be managed with the specific virus in mind.
So if you can get mumps after being vaccinated why bother? Obviously the vaccine doesn’t work. The medical literature confirms it. Blaming unvaccinated people for it is lame logic.
The odds of that happening are a million to one in countries with public sanitation and water purification. Adverse vaccine reactions have higher odds than most people realize with only 1/10 being officially reported. More people are worried about having a vaccine injured child and having to look after them for life, then worrying about who is going to care for them when they die. That’s a bigger fuss for them, no risk to you. They’re entitled to make that decision for themselves, not you. Vaccination is not mandatory in Canada, nor should it be.
There you go again. Not every disease is like small pox. Small pox is where the whole idea of vaccines came about. Inoculations against smallpox goes back at least 1000 years. In the 10th century chinese medicine people would shave the scabs off small pox victims, grind, dry and mix with herbs, then blow it in the face of children who would then become sick, but recover and enjoy life long immunity. Other populations developed wide spread resistance after centuries of exposure. The big death toll didn’t come until the virus came to america where the population had very little experience with viruses. Estimates are 90+% were wiped out. Later Europeans who came to amarica were dying almost as fast as they got off the boat, while Africans were largely untouched.
By the 19th century the worst of it was over due to quarantines and better hygiene. The first modern inoculation for smallpox didn’t actually contain any small pox in it, but rather used a much less deadly virus called cowpox.
I’m trying to be brief but you can see that small pox has a long history with lots of trial and error in it. The Mumps vaccines on the other hand is relatively new. This article is about the mumps and the apparently failure of the boosters to protect these athletes.
Instead trying to propagate this narrative that people who are refuse vaccines are “putting us all in danger,” the writer should be investigating the supply chain of the boosters. How many other people think they are protected but aren’t? Where they improperly stored? Is the testing regiment sufficient? Does the manufacture life up to health and safety codes? How many people are at greater risked because they think they are protected and therefore engage is unsanitary activity like sharing water bottles?
I am one of those children who suffers from hearing loss from chicken pox… the vaccination wasn’t available when I was a child. I would have taken my chances with the vaccination, had it been available.
And the risk IS to me, when people don’t vaccinate. The higher the incidents of those illnesses, the greater the impact on our health care system – look at Alberta in 2013 and 2014 when there was a measles outbreak and the millions spent on quarantining hospitals and treating those who were sick… That impacts me, both as a health care provider who had to deal with those patients, and as a taxpayer who has to pay for those increased costs through my taxes. Look at the money that was spent in schools, on closing some classes for days, because of the outbreak. You cannot say that someone else not getting vaccinated doesn’t impact me – it does.
Where did you get your statistic on only 1/10 being reported?
And, if that is merely an allergic reaction, even if it is an anaphylactic reaction, although it is life-threatening at the moment, that is something that does not have a long-term, disabling effect. I took a quick look at the Public Health Agency of Canada website, that collects the reports on adverse incidents…. 90% of the adverse incidents reported fell into the “non-serious” category (these included crying for several hours, pain or rash at the injection site, fever, or allergy type symptoms) which are in no way life threatening.
Where is this “my child is going to become permanently disabled from vaccinations and I will never be able to retire because I will have to care for them” coming from? Where is the evidence to support that?
Show me the stats showing how many vaccinated children suffered long term physiological affects that were truly disabling in some way. I would like to read them. If you are going to stand by your opinion, show me the peer-reviewed studies that show that, so I can review them.
Everyone I knew as a child got chickenpox. Nobody suffered any permanent damage. You’re going to have to do your own homework. Until the advent of a vaccine it was considered to be a mild childhood illness. It still is, whether or not your personal anecdote is true.
Nice try.
Measles and mumps are also considered mild, but there are some who get the illness who suffer serious long term affects. You would rather call me a liar (even though you don’t know me, and I could provide documentation from my doctor and an audiologist to the contrary) than to admit that the illnesses have far greater risks than the vaccine.
You have chosen to ignore the recent measles episode in Alberta that I referred to (and if YOU would do your homework, you would see the damage that outbreak caused).
And, you have chosen to ignore all my questions to you:
1. Where did you get your statistic on only 1/10 being reported?
2. Where is this “my child is going to become permanently disabled from vaccinations and I will never be able to retire because I will have to care for them” coming from? Where is the evidence to support that?
And, you have blatantly chosen to ignore my request:
Show me the stats showing how many vaccinated children suffered long term physiological affects that were truly disabling in some way. I would like to read them. If you are going to stand by your opinion, show me the peer-reviewed studies that show that, so I can review them.
Telling me to “You’re going to have to do your own homework. Until the advent of a vaccine it was considered to be a mild childhood illness” is a quitter’s way out.
That is a childish way of saying “I don’t have any evidence to support my opinion, so I am going to attempt to deflect your requests for information.”
As I noted, I had the illness BEFORE the vaccine was made. I realize I am the exception to the “mild illness.” I also am one of a rare number of people who had chicken pox twice. I realize I am the one in a million that you referred to in your comments. I could probably, with a little work, come up with more people with the same long term affects.
I can provide study after study, peer-reviewed and reproducible, to show that vaccinations are far safer than not vaccinating. You have provided nothing.
Stand up for your beliefs. Prove your point with FACTS. Show me the studies. Provide the links. Answer my questions above.
Until you do, you are just a troll in this conversation, who cannot back up what you say with any facts. Every comment you have made is merely opinion, not fact.
I don’t expect anyone to accept what I’ve stated as gospel. It’s up to everyone to research the info. for themselves and come to their own conclusions.
I have no interest in convincing you. There is plenty of info. on the web that disputes the pop-culture notions you rely on for your rants.
Then why bother posting? You waste my time and yours.
If you weren’t interested in calling out others for their beliefs, and presenting your own, you wouldn’t be commenting at all….
And if there were actual FACTS (which is far different from just internet ‘info”) you would be forthcoming about it.
“Pop-culture notions”? HAHAHAHAHAHA
I knew I had read that mindless dreck phrase somewhere else….
Now I understand where you are coming from…. you have no proof, no evidence, and are unwilling to look for facts, yet you call yourself a journalist.
I think this link speaks for itself:
http://anarchic-teapot.net/2014/07/willberg-skeptic-agenda/
It is impossible to have an intelligent conversation or debate, when one party (you) refuses to actually provide any relevant or factual information.
Until you do that, your posts are nothing more than spam.
In response to the comment below, it is the vaccine maker itself who declares the ineffectiveness and unhealthy effect of their mumps vaccine product. If the vaccine maker declares this in black and white, within the legally binding vaccine insert, then ignoring that comes with no need for rebuttal. As for being stupid……smart, healthy and wealthy people like me are obviously on to something and I would gladly display all 3 of these attributes publicly to prove the obvious. Healthy and wealthy people (who don’t vaccinate) can’t be stupid by definition. I would also wager a bet that any public comparison of my wealth and health would dwarf anyone stupid enough to ignore what a vaccine maker says about their own vaccine. Anytime you want to compare intelligence, health or wealth maybe you can start by posting your pic so we can assess just how much health knowledge you actually hold. http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf
You think that ad hominem fantasy attacks against me are going to deflect from the real issues? Hahahaha. People will do their own homework despite your silly attempts to discredit someone who disagrees with you.
You can disagree – I am ok with that…. but to disagree
when you have NO evidence to support your opinion provide the same, even when asked…. that is silly at is greatest.
I did my homework… and what I found supports my opinion, not yours. When I tried to find evidence to support your opinion, I found none.
And as for “ad hominem fantasy attacks” – pot calling kettle black there….
I didn’t have to discredit you – you provided the information on that all on your own.
The real issue, is that people who provide the fantasy information that you provide, does more harm to people than good. Yet, when pressed for evidence to support your opinion, you can provide none. You resort to “look for yourself” rather than providing anything.
You are dangerous. You are as dangerous as Jenny McCarthy because you present yourself as educated and truthful, when in fact, you are not. You have no evidence to support your claims, and when someone provides actual facts, you discount those facts as “pop culture.” You should be ashamed of the damage you have done.
Just because you didn’t know anyone who wasn’t injured by the chicken pox doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Maybe it just wasn’t discussed. A lot of times the infections go into the genitals, sometimes requiring reconstructive surgery. 15 yrs ago when the chicken pox vaccine was just becoming wide spread in bc, approx 1-2 children were dying from the chicken pox each year with no deaths from the vaccine. My daughter broke out with cp the 3 days before her appt to get vaccinated. It ended up being the worst case 3 different dr’s had ever seen. It resulted in multiple trips to the dr’s, clinic and hospital because of complications and secondary infections. One dr’s foresight to put her on a strong antibiotic early on probably prevented her from developing flesh eating disease ( they are related) she has permanent scars and is evening missing segments were her eyelashes should be because of the severity of the pox. It makes me angry when people are so flip and ‘childhood’ diseases and how we all ‘grew up fine’ but actually we didn’t. We just didn’t hear about. When someone’s child back then had severe problems they went off to live somewhere else and no one talked about! 40 yrs ago women drank and smoked during pregnancy too but we’d never encourage that again. And honestly unless they were drunks the people that I know who’s mothers drank and smoke are for fine.
Mumps in adults makes, too can be very serious and cause several long term problems including sterility.
Outstanding post. Spot on.
Pop culture? That was what’s pushing the anti vac movement. Science is what brought you vaccinations.
Millions of others can find it but you can’t… BTW who is paying you to post these outrageous rants of yours? Or perhaps you simply have narcissistic temper tantrums when someone doesn’t play your game your way? False moral panic and attempts to paint those who question vaccines as folk devils just doesn’t cut it. You are too irrational to discuss anything.
According to the Alliance for Natural Health the vaccine just doesn’t work.
“The effectiveness of the MMR vaccine in preventing mumps is—according to Dr. William Schaffer, a pro-vaccine researcher at Vanderbilt University—“not so good.” A CDC study of a 2009–2010 mumps outbreak in the northeastern US found that a full 77% of those sickened in 2009 outbreak had been vaccinated.
The effectiveness of the mumps vaccine depends heavily on the strain contracted. According to a 2008 FDA study, the vaccine is “0 to 33%” effective on the Rubini strain. Even so, this study, like other government studies, blamed outbreaks on low vaccination rates instead of on low vaccine effectiveness.”
lol.. i love when heavily medicated morons give me charts like this.. first. show me where all these people who died didn’t get vaccinated.. second you forgot to include all the other factors that prevent the spread of disease.. like oh i don’t know, sanitation techniques, and overall cleanliness of certain public places.. or how about doctor diagnosis where they tell you not to go hang out with people when you have the flu.. LOL.. keep them coming
lol. i won’t argue with you.. its not like an outbreak can be avoided simply by not going to school or taking the bus or metro with measles.. your right to blame someone for negligence if they have contracted something and are hanging around large groups of people.. by your definition, i guess you should probably blame the first person ever in the world to get the measles.. its all their fault they weren’t vaccinated.. its not like drug companies ever release anything that has been proven harmful then covered up by the industry without being spoken of again.. do you know where a conspiracy comes from? WHEN PEOPLE DON’T TELL THE TRUTH… lol have you any idea how much money drug companies make off people? some unknown ingredients they include takes years to study side effects by themselves.. except of course the mercury they use in vaccines is already known to cause mental disabilities.. no matter what the dose..
fantasy information?? you provide nothing.. why don’t you just go ahead and blame someone else for getting chicken pox twice because someone in the world already had when they were young and wasn’t vaccinated.. i guess its not hard to see what all those vaccines did to your immune system over the years, having caught chicken pox as an adult. you are a very tiny minority.. id say instead of those vaccines where you’re simply trusting a large stock exchanged company, you should just eat more foods that strengthen the immune system
How is it non vaccinated people spreading the disease? Clearly Sidney Crosby and several other hockey players have caught the mumps from someone who was vaccinated. Assuming all of the athletes who contracted the disease were vaccinated. Unvaccinated people are not the ones walking around with the virus in our body. Unlike vaccinated people.
this doesn’t mean much.. 99% of kids that get it aren’t vaccinated, and heal up just fine regardless of the severity of the symptoms.. and usually never contract the disease again. i would be very worried if i never had it and was only vaccinated for it.. chicken pox is extremely contagious, and if you didn;t get the full experience when you were young, your chances of having horrible symptoms as an adult increases. regardless of vaccination.
shouldn’t you be prostesting against global warming science or that cigarettes don’t cause cancer since they are widely available to the public? or that alcohol doesn’t cause liver damage because the government allows people to sell it? addiction sells.. there are alot of statistics and scientific research against vaccines if you look in the right places.. and not on the CDC or FDA website.. weather you want to believe it or not addiction & dependency sells.. especially when it only kills you slowly..
yeah science brought us combustion, coal power, and nuclear energy.. doesn’t mean they are safe does it? would you like me to provide a longer list of things science brought that aren’t safe? lol and don’t spin this around like im anti science, because im atheist who is 100% for science, but vaccines does unnatural things to the body’s immune system. its not my fault if you don’t want to believe these things, but it’s true.
huh? you told me that you would have gotten the vaccine as a child even though you already had the chicken pox.. having the chicken pox vs the vaccine is alot more effective later in life… having both is not more effective and is kind of idiotic, and they do not recommend this.. so obviously something doesn’t add up.. its your story that leads me to believe your parents never understood the implications of not having chicken pox as a child..
lol educate an anti vax nutbag? people wouldn’t be anti vax if vaccines didn’t fuck so many people up.. you can keep looking at cdc and fda statistics if you want. in the meantime, you should go fight global warming for the oil companies, and try to convince people that ocean levels don’t rise when caps melt into the ocean.
but vaccines don’t provide the same amount of immunity.. a vaccine is only a small dose of a similar virus strain.. not even the actual virus strain, so your body may recognize it but it does not give you the same effects as actually experiencing the full effects of the virus..
no one said there was no chance.. but having chicken pox is more effective then taking the vaccine for the last god damn time.. and the only way to get chicken pox is by being very close to someone who has chicken pox.. its not like chicken pox has no visible symptoms, so i wouldn’t use the fact that you put yourself at risk of getting chicken pox as way to promote vaccines. even if you had the vaccine, you would have gotten it anyway.. it doesn’t make you look too good.
but spontaneous abortion doesn’t count as an infant. yes infant mortality rates drastically decreased as birth conditions got much better.. and “spontaneous abortion” doesn’t even count as infant mortality.. an infant is already born. i love how you idiots take insignificant examples of mothers and children dying in childbirth 80 years ago, and associate it with not being vaccinated.. hilarious but really stupid.. i guess being under a doctors supervision in a clean environment has absolutely nothing to do with it.. you’re all clowns. you sound like an fda troll.
shux.. i hate when things aren’t widely discussed. like the very negative cons of getting vaccinated. i guess censorship has gotten the best of you. its kind of like going and filling your car up with gas knowing its ruining our biosphere.. im am guilty of that also, but alternative choices are out of my price range (go figure eh!!).. in the case of vaccines, i do have a choice until the nazis force people to get them.. i don’t willfully go spreading diseases as legitimate modern research has taught me not to go close to anyone if i am contagious.. or not to be around anyone who is, but its not fool proof, and if some vaccinated idiot with a virus decides that he’s invincible and goes and makes out with his girlfriend, its not my fault.
lol so i am supposed to pump my body full of immune system destroying chemicals because some schmuck germiphobe somewhere has a terrible immune system from taking so many vaccines? sounds pretty logical..
yes someone somewhere in history first caught a virus and obviously wasn’t vaccinated 400 years ago.. its a damn miracle that the global population is 300 million in the united states and exponentially growing with all the people who don’t get vaccinated.. you sound like hitler. i guess when they make rfid chip implants mandatory, you’ll want to ship those people away also?
do you know why the populations are so big and why these diseases are almost 99% neutralized? because of medicine and vacinations. The people who are not vacinated are a threat to the rest of civalization period. If you don’t believe so you are a moron and deserve to be shipped off to a private island to spend the rest of your life, exact same as every non vaccinated person in the world. and if that makes me like hitler, refer to me as mein furher.
Actually, once again, you are reading things wrong. Perhaps you should go back to grade school and re-learn cognitive reading.
I never said I would have gotten the vaccine AFTER getting chicken pox. Nope, not once. Please go back and read it again.
You try so hard to twist and misinterpret that it makes you look like the moron.
And once again, that is the most stupid rationale regarding illness that is making the homeopathic anti-vaxx circuit. Let’s all expose our kids to polio (good thing we can’t here), or maybe HepB, or other vaccinatable illnesses, so they can get a better immune system…. WOW… stupid, stupid, stupid….
i have never heard such a massive amount of bullshit.. sure medical advancements that made it possible to diagnose such viruses and catch them before they spread or cause massive damage.. i guess better and cleaner living conditions, clean water, and better foods couldn’t possibly be attributed to people living longer.. lol vaccines don’t add 30 years on to life you moron.. uneducated retards like you are a threat to civilization. i feel bad for you and the rest of your family.
and once again, you are still providing no evidence. No studies, no reports, no abstracts… *yawn* your mindless, no evidence trolling has gotten boring.
im still laughing at the fact that the one thing that causes big population which is “life expectancy” is because of vaccines, when life expectancy was already almost double what it was before any vaccinations ever went mainstream.. its like you’ve never taken a history or geography class in your life. or maybe you were just educated in the united states, in which case i understand.
never mind, you play world of warcraft. pretty clear you already live in a fantasy land. your arguments are void.
oh jesus, you’re killing me. Firstly not American so don’t make yourself look any stupider by making assumptions. Secondly, before vaccinations and modern medicine life expectantcy was around 30-40 years old. People were married around age 16 and had families shortly after. I’m not entirely sure what point your trying to make? Are you trying to prove that you are so moronic that you came to a battle of wits without a weapon? That you came to me claiming to have any sort of intelligent information or any sort of comprehensible rebuttal? I’m sorry but your facts are skewed and I highly suggest you actually go do some research, before you ever speak to me like you have the slightest idea what you’re talking about.
Wir zum Bespannen runden alle nicht geimpften Menschen und steckt sie auf einer Insel.
You can call me names all you want. The fact remains, that you haven’t provided anything to back up your side of this conversation. You still have ignored all my requests on where you got your data. You can say “do your homework” “millions can find it” but the fact remains – you have provided nothing to back up your opinion. You want to be part of this conversation, YOU need to provide your data.
And talking about false moral panic…. you must be looking in the mirror, because that is exactly what you do. You prey on the uneducated, the fearful, and convince them without any data, to be afraid of vaccines.
Irrational? Temper tantrum? *yawn* I am more than willing to discuss, if you would actually bring something to the table, and so far you have not. No studies, no data, no reports, no abstracts, nothing. All you have provided is opinion and conjecture.
When are you going to actually provide the information requested? Oh wait – you will once again tell me to find it myself. Perhaps I need to be wearing a tinfoil hat to find it. (yes that was sarcasm, and an attack – because I am sick and tired of your victim mentality, and your unwillingness to have an educated conversation based on studies and research).
Once again, jon, you are misinterpreting comments – if you would have looked higher, you would have seen that it is laurie who was providing fantasy information.
OH yeah – how many times do I have to ask you to provide the studies, research report links, and data to support your side?
I am still waiting for you to provide me links to the statistics and scientific research against vaccines.
LOL YOU FUCKING IDIOT.. all you have to do is type life expectancy into google and you’ll see that it was about 70 years old in the 1960s.. its really not that fucking hard.. now go look when the first vaccine went mainstream.. it was only the 1960s where they began testing vaccines.. sorry but you can take your vaccine theory and shove it up your ass.. go back to playing world of warcraft retard..
Again you’re making assumptions, this time based on my choice of entertainment? It’s easy to see where your education level sits. Enjoy being the most ignorant person to ever comment on this site. If you ever get educated I look forward to having an intelligent debate with you.
i just find it funny how you spend hours on a computer playing fantasy, and you can’t find a simple life expectancy chart on google which was 70 years old before vaccines
Please if you’re going to try to make me look stupid, at least do it correctly. I said Vaccines and MODERN MEDICINE you neanderthal. Please comment again when you’ve notched your iq up 100 points.
so aside from conjuring up some ridiculously falso numbers about life expectancy being 30 years in the 1960s when almost no one got vaccinated, is there anything else you wanna tell me that will make me piss my pants laughing? how about chinas life expectancy being 20 years lower at that time, and blaming no vaccines for it? you are the reason home schooling is bad.
im sorry, someone who claims life expectancy was 30 years in the 1960s telling me to comment when i have a higher IQ.. im not sure where you got the numbers 30-40, because they sound more like your IQ score.
yeah as simple as injecting something as toxic as mercury into an infants body because there’s a chance they might get measles? of course.. fucking pathetic idiot.. lol the chances are the same with or without vaccines.. except vaccines harm people.
http://healthimpactnews.com/2012/vaccinated-population-contracting-and-spreading-disease-they-were-vaccinated-for/
Suppose you provide us with the independent challenge studies that compare vaccinated vs. unvaccinated populations to support your silly rants. In the meantime can the false moral panic about mild, childhood illnesses that are really little more than a nuisance. In fact less of a nuisance than you and your tantrums.
lol i love it.. most of these people would believe that jesus and santa claus were fisting eachother in the cayman islands.. while stroking the easter bunny if thats what the government told them..
yeah but that goes against people who are pro vaccines.. please take it off right now.. or they’ll just say its an irrelevant study done by a nutjob, because no one except for the government, fda, or cdc who make billions of peoples misfortune are allowed to post any kind of negative study. its already burned into their brains that the government cares so much about them by letting them buy alcohol and cigarettes, and a cheeseburger made of pink slime..
Why do you continue to refuse to provide your own evidence to back up your opinion? Despite repeated requests to provide links, studies, research, abstracts, you have refused.
For the same reason the author of this op. ed. didn’t provide any. I’m not interested in convincing you of anything despite your feigned arrogance that I’m obliged to do so. I’m not. Take as many jabs as you like. I’ll pass.
OH this is fun….
I checked out your link… and the links attached to it… and some links attached to that…..
And this is what I found….
Your own evidence was shown to be not reproducible in general
populations, but those who did the studies admitted that infection of vaccinated populations only occurred under very specific high crowding situations over extended periods of time, not in a general population.
Let’s take a look at the article you posted.
It states:
“Recently published research in the New England Journal of Medicine1 investigated the reasons behind, and potential solutions, for mumps outbreaks reported to the CDC during the past several years. According to the authors, widespread use of the MMR vaccine had reduced the annual incidence of mumps in
the US by more than 99 percent by 2005.”
The article provides no links to the original NEJM article, or CDC reports – you have to follow to a second page, then another link, to get to the articles. (had I written this while in university, I would have received a failing mark for that).
When I finally found the original NEJM article, it states:
“Conclusions:
The epidemiologic features of this outbreak suggest that intense
exposures, particularly among boys in schools, facilitated transmission and overcame vaccine-induced protection in these patients. High rates of two-dose coverage reduced the severity of the disease and the transmission to persons in settings of less intense exposure.”
WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!! The very report you are using to argue with me actually says that the vaccination resulted in lower severity and lower transmission rates!!!!!! Yeah… vaccinations are BADDDDDD….
Actually, if you want to participate in a conversation, or debate, it IS your obligation to provide the evidence to support your side. To not do so is just trolling.
I know – you will cry that I am name-calling and taking jabs…. I am ok with that.
You provided an opinion. You did not provide anything to back it up. I am allowed to state that is just absolutely stupid and that if you expect me to have any respect for your opinion, you should be able to back it up. Since you continue to refuse, I will continue to disrespect your position as stupid.
i guess you can’t read then or something? or you completely dismissed the publication and found another one? guess you missed the part where it said “Vaccines are never 100 percent protective, and the reason for this is because they provide only artificial, temporary, typically inferior immunity compared to that your body would obtain from naturally contracting and recovering from an infection.”
i guess you also missed the this part? or covering up the ineffectiveness of the mumps portion of the MMR vaccine, costing the US government millions of dollars in wasted funds over the past decade, and exposing children to unnecessary risks from the vaccine for very limited benefit.”
pick and choose what you want to read.. but at the end of the day, it sounds like you should go give a member of the fda or cdc and sloppy blowjob for dealing bogus drugs.
i also missed the part where scientists were supposed to be english majors and cater to your fantasy romance reading. unfortunately there are more important things in this case then writing a best selling fiction novel.. im not so sure you can handle searching google with a huge mental block like you have.. ive read both sides.. and will not side with vaccines.. throw us in the gas chambers, but when you realize how much they’ve fucked you up, hopefully you get the point..
You are so funny…..
No one ever said vaccines are 100% effective.
That quote you gave “vaccines are never 100% effective… blah blah blah….” has no reference attached to it – there is no supporting documentation for it. It is the writer’s opinion, not fact.
Also, the covering up part… here is your tin foil hat…. get over the conspiracy theory nonsense already. No evidence to support that either.
Also, the article you posted is from a person who has a vested interest and bias, who uses these articles as a tool to sell his own products, for his own financial gain (hmmmmm very much like those pharmaceutical companies you dislike so much).
And, at the end of the day, once again, you have still failed to provide research, evidence, and peer-reviewed literature reviews of studies that were reproducible to verify your position.
I am tired of doing your homework for you….
apparently ,he’d responded to the vaccine well,as he had a good level of antibodies, at that time but, that makes me wonder,whether this is not the case,when a different strain of mumps virus is around..like G type, and the vaccine contains a A strain..?
So your link to the CDC shows that there have been no deaths reported in the last 4 years from any of these diseases. You have not shown death increases at all. The unvaccinated are not giving anybody the disease – they are getting it from the vaccinated who are shedding the diseases to everybody. The unvaccinated have gained natural immunity – which lasts their whole life.
On top of that the deaths reported up to that time were down to single digits.
They still are reporting the flue (approx. 500 in the USA per year) as if it were 30,000 – which includes 29,500 pneumonia cases. The death rate for the flu is in the single digits too…….
Don’t forget that they changed the definition of POLIO when they introduced the vaccine. It immediately showed a very flawed favorable polio vaccine benefit. In actuality – polio is worse now than ever. They just DO NOT call it polio.
Can you provide some references to support that “polio is worse than ever”? I would like to see them. I am hoping you can provide peer reviewed research on that.
“The unvaccinated are not giving anybody the disease – they are getting it from the vaccinated who are shedding the diseases to everybody. The unvaccinated have gained natural immunity – which lasts their whole life.”
Where is your evidence to support this?
Please provide research data, and peer-reviewed reports.
You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Chances are the same with or without vaccines? Are you that fcking stupid? As for mercury, most thimerasol has been removed from vaccines for kids under 6, and the only oer mercury content is trace amount of less than 1 microgram per dose. You get more mercury from eating sushi.
There is no peer reviewed paper to support this nonsense.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html . Being a journalist he should maybe be aware of what’s going on before he writes about it.
So I speak in general terms, this being a very general-terms sort of discussion, and you try to prove me wrong by going on to long discussions on a subject? I said, simply, that “vaccinations played a role” in the eradication of smallpox, since this discussion is about the merits of vaccinations, and you try to mention the history of smallpox? I don’t get it. I’m sorry, but I don’t get what you’re trying to prove. We both seem to agree that smallpox was fought using innoculations and a vaccine program.
My mentioning of smallpox was a sidenote, to reinforce my statements regarding the health benefits of vaccinations in general. Nowhere have I said otherwise.
You’re focusing on the specifics of the MMR vaccine, when I haven’t really been talking about that at all, because, again, the arguments in these threads aren’t about the mumps vaccine specifically, but vaccines in general.
So, what are you trying to say? in cliff notes. That the mumps vaccine, specifically, isn’t up to par? Because you know what? I’m not an immunologist. Maybe you’re right. The great thing about science is it’s always improving and doesn’t accept things on blind faith. Or is it that vaccines are a health hazard?
because it that’s your belief, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. And there’s no collection of data that would suggest otherwise.
I’m sorry ,what? So, you’re unvacinated, therefore, you don’t have the disease?
Are you under the impression that before vaccines, there was no such thing as illness?
As I’ve said before, a few times, read the article. You can spread the illness with a vaccine. Vaccines just help curb the spread of illness, reducing the chances of an outbreak.
Your odds of getting infected increase without a vaccination. And while it will help, healthy living and a positive attitude is only going to get you so far.
I forgot to mention it before, but a quick addendum. People that are against vaccines seem to be of the mindset that it’s all about money. This bothers me because, well, most everything is about money, so why is it that vaccine makers get singled out?
I know people that make this argument, but if you turn it around and point out that the music they like, the books they read, and the healthy foods they eat all have a financial interest, they get upset. Why are vaccines different?
And also, if drug companies were entirely about the money, why would they release vaccines at all? It’s so much more profitable to treat the disease, as opposed to stopping its spread. And don’t say “it’s PR”, because if you look outside these days, clearly the drug companies aren’t swimming in good PR.
Vaccines exist (and are generally quite cheap, comparitively speaking) because the people that make them are generally decent, caring human beings. And sure, they make money, but who doesn’t?
you are just a pathetic pharmaceutical troll.. so what you work for some pharma company? where do you find the time to troll youtube trying to convince people to take vaccines? if you have kids i feel really sorry for them.. if you have a wife i feel really sorry for her.
Lmfao. Who is this “they”, and when did “they” change the name of an identified and classified virus? Stop your ignorant, misinformed, dangerous fear mongering.
Science is NOT a democracy. It does not care about your incorrect opinion, only the data and the facts. This is not religion that we’re discussing.
Are you out of your mind? When did scientific data and virology become “pop culture?” You are speaking from a position of pure ignorance. Sorry to be the one to break the news to you.
Clearly, tin foil is on sale at Walmart this week.
You are dangerously misinformed.
Lol @ immune destroying chemicals. Citations, please! Lmfao.
You’re awesome, newt.
Than*
Even my 13-yo knows the difference. It speaks to your general intelligence level, which you’ve already shown to be well below average. Your posts speak volumes to support that. Annie is being far too kind.
Lol, my daughter is very healthy,m thank you. And she has had all of her vaccines. I do not work for any pharma company, but I do have a PhD in molecular genetics, and biochemistry. I also did my postdoctorate in protein biochemistry with significant experience in the field of molecular virology. So yeah, I know more about this stuff than you. Period. This is not subject to a vote, and science doesn’t care about your misguided opinions. Science is driven by data and facts. Clinical trials are driven by results and statistics. Risk vs reward. All of this is documented in medical and scientific journals, not on pseudoscience sites or those pandering to tinfoil hat-wearing nut ags. So, again, please provide peer-review journal citations to support your “opinions” so that we can have a productive conversation. Otherwise, please go fc
ol, my daughter is very healthy,m thank you. And she has had all of her vaccines. I do not work for any pharma company, but I do have a PhD in molecular genetics, and biochemistry. I also did my postdoctorate in protein biochemistry with significant experience in the field of molecular virology. So yeah, I know more about this stuff than you. Period. This is not subject to a vote, and science doesn’t care about your misguided opinions. Science is driven by data and facts. Clinical trials are driven by results and statistics. Risk vs reward. All of this is documented in medical and scientific journals, not on pseudoscience sites or those pandering to tinfoil hat-wearing nut ags. So, again, please provide peer-review journal citations to support your “opinions” so that we can have a productive conversation. Otherwise, please go
Otherwise, please go fck yourself. Sorry that got cut off. It was the most important part!
“Once science has been established, once a scientific truth emerges from a consensus of experiments and observations, it is the way of the world. When different experiments give you the same result, it is no longer subject to your opinion. That’s the good thing about science: It’s true whether or not you believe in it. That’s why it works.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
I find your avatar to be hilariously ironic.
First, I love the name calling. You know nothing about me, but I can guarantee you know very little about science. Or history, for that matter. You get more mercury from a serving of sushi than you do from a vaccine, and that’s without even considering that thimerasol has been removed from most vaccines given to children under 6, and that where it remains, it is in trace amounts – about 1 ug per dose. Do you even know what a microgram is? Vaccines have saved more lives than any other scientific innovation besides maybe antibiotics. I don’t have the numbers, and frankly, you’re not worth the extra google search. Oh, and as I have become fond of posting on this thread, science doesn’t care about your opinion. Not even a little. Have a nice day.
Actually, it’s the people who share your anti-science, anti-intellectual beliefs who are most likely ultra religious and lacking the ability for critical thinking. Have fun with that.
*yawn*
Your life must be a very lonely and angry place. First things first. My daughter and wife are very healthy, thank you. Second, this is not youtube. Smh. Finally, I do not work for any pharma company, nor have I ever. I do, however, have a phd in molecular biology and biochemistry, and postdoctorate in protein biochemistry with an emphasis on molecular virology. So yeah, I know more about this. Stuff than you. Period.
This site is bad about editing, so sorry about that. Let me finish my thoughts. Your posts and rants on this site show someone who is woefully misinformed about how vaccines, and science in general, work. Yet you come here and spout off ad hom attacks and conspiracy theory -driven fear mongering about soething you simply do not understand.
And again, science doesn’t care what you think or feel. It is not concerned in the least with your unsupported opinions. Sorry, that’s just not how it works. Please go back in your basement and hide from the big scary outside world. Your fears and unfounded beliefs must have you paralyzed and clearly very very angry.
lol yeah and you are telling me the bullshit you post is legitimate? what conspiracy are you talking about?? you are just some bitter old women who had some bad luck with the chicken pox and lost hearing.. does it mean someone else should go get a vaccine because your immune system is full of shit and destroyed? sucks to be you, but im not gonna use some crazy old vaccinated bat who cathes diseases easy as my reason for doing it.. its not my fault you’re dumb enough to go expose yourself to more chicken pox.. because the only way you catch it is very close contact.. that vaccine wouldn’t have done shit all if you had it as a kid.. seeing as how you told me you already had the virus.. keep believing that though.. its rather amusing.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/07/23/merck-vaccine-fraud-story-buried.aspx
http://www.thewestwire.com/cdc-mmr-autism-cover-up-president-merck-vaccine-division/
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13685-drug-giant-merck-accused-of-deaths-coverup.html#.VJlrEF4CA
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2004/11/viox-n10.html
http://www.anh-usa.org/autism-vaccine-cover-up-latest-updates/
I can keep going on and on.. im surprised, someone like you with no life can’t find any cases against any drug company? or do you just skip over those websites? im not against every drug but there are hundreds of drug scandals that aren’t conspiracies in the united states alone.. people don’t oppose them just for the sake of opposing them.. its not some crazy pseudoscience, and there are scientists out there smart enough to test these kinds of drugs who don’t work for any pharma company.. weather you choose to believe it or not.. at the end of the day, its a business.. a stock traded business.. billions
what lives have they saved? just because someone doesn’t die doesn’t mean they were saved by a vaccine lol.. its not like the diseases they vaccinate for can’t be treated right away.. its not “immunity” as the misleading definition suggests.. im just looking for some hard stats about who actually died because they weren’t vaccinated.. people keep giving me this bullshit chart with diseases from the 1950s that spread so much because people didn’t realize what they had and weren’t diagnosed or treated properly.. or told to quarantine themselves.. medicine wasn’t the same.. not to mention that living conditions weren’t as good.. overall, the people who died were most likely living in extremely poor conditions without adequate antibiotics.. where are these deaths and saved lives from vaccines though?
yeah it sucks that this thread is full of pharmaceutical trolls
Medicine is not science. The guy who wrote this op ed is not backing up his rabid pro-vaccine opinions with any data or facts. You’re not supplying any either. Demanding that someone else hand-hold you by supplying research is a nice ploy but you’ll have to try it on someone who’s naïve.
You believe in vaccines because you’ve been socially normed to accept that they’re beneficial. That’s pop-culture conditioning, and that’s all you get from public health officials. You obviously don’t read medical journals because there’s plenty of debate about vaccine effectiveness there. You’re either a paid troll or a dupe.
lol yeah.. except the results come directly from pharma companies and are doctored to cater towards fda approval.. its ok though. other people do research.. its just pharma trolls like you who disregard any science that doesn’t come from a drug company, or its associates.. whats the point of conjuring up some massive anti vax campaign? it makes zero sense if all studies came out the same..independent scientists have no reason to lie, but pharma companies do, because the product makes them billions.. i wouldn’t even be surprised if they produced and supply nicotine to cigarette companies. you seem to be a pretty greecy person. wouldn’t trust you one bit.
most thimerasol has been removed from vaccines for kids right? i guess thats why you denied the fact that the previous mercury doses given were toxic and dangerous? LOL yet you defend all testing done by all those pharma scam artists? mercury wasn’t taken out until someone else pointed out the fact that it was poisoning children and causing mental disabilities.. you waited for someone else to let everyone know.. hmmm, and you expect people to trust.. what a load of fucking shit.
the falsehood? im not against medical.. im just not for vaccines.. they do not strengthen the immune system.. if anything they weaken it because you are not even necessarily exposed to the same virus strain, and a mild form is not enough to build a healthy immunity. im not against government, but when they lie about crucial things that hurt people and wastes other peoples money while profiting themselves.. i won’t argue, but the same authority you talk about helping people are the same ones who approve the sales of leisure drugs and harmful fume producing chemicals that are clearly not safe for mankind.. im sorry, but if you can’t see the fast personal gain aspect of vaccine companies then you are a lost cause.. the u.s government always uses fear tactics to get what they want out of their population, then they go spread whatever bullshit they want everywhere else.. lol its not a myth… its not like fucking unicorns running around and aliens taking over.. its called greed.
maybe because vaccines don’t stop the spread of disease at all? in case you forgot, the whole world isn’t vaccinated.. the outbreaks we always see involves both parties, vaccinated and non vaccinated.. to blame non vaccinated people is idiotic and old.. our bodys are naturally designed to get sick and recover.. people died from diseases in the 40s and 50s because medical, sanitation, and overall living conditions were shit.. those same viruses do not even kill non vaccinated people today… but to say vaccinated people don’t die because they are vaccinated and ignore all the other billions who live healthy lives non vaccinated is just retarded science and stupid ignorance..
fear mongering? what like tricking people into thinking they need to take an artificial additive because their immune systems aren’t capable of handling certain diseases? disease is always going to be part of life.. new strains of diseases are formed every day, so when are you ever going to stop? gonna start giving babies 100 vaccines to account for every known virus? disease will never be eliminated.. and all these “outbreaks” really can’t be avoided because vaccinated people can attract and spread disease just like anyone else which is why they still get quarantined.. and im not sure if you’ve ever taken a history lesson before, but when money is involved peoples way of interpreting data is skewed.. being a molecular biologist you can’t even prove the fact that diseases like polio and measles are under direct control of vaccines because of all the other medical advancements since the 30s 40s and 50s have all attributed to healthier environments. being able to recognize symptoms and treat diseases so they don’t get worse.. most people get adequate healthcare and have for quite sometime now.. over time peoples immune systems through evolution and fighting off various diseases get stronger not through constant drug injection. you’ve probably posted more comments then me on this site, so you are a hypocrite, and for a phd in molecular biology, you sure spend a lot of time fighting with people on a website. god knows how many others you troll. where do you find the time?
Wow… after reading that childish playground name-calling
tantrum, I don’t know whether to buy you a new box of crayons or get you a bigger sandbox. Did you stomp your feet while you typed that too?
Let’s take a look at your links, shall we?
A Mercola Post – I thought we had already gone over this.
Dr. Mercola writes articles – he does not do the research, he does not do the studies, and he is not a credible, unbiased resource, as his website that you keep posting from is his business where he wants you to buy his products…. Hmmmm – it is a business… let’s look at what you said about big pharma “at the end of the day, its a business.”
The Westwire article – once again, not a search study. A self-appointed “Alternative News” website, where many of the articles are written by Dr Mercola (again, we have covered his business reasons for wanting to post what he does, because “at the end of the day, its a business.”) And oh yes – one study supposedly “proving” vaccinations cause autism definitely negates the HUNDREDS that show that it doesn’t. (we will discuss evidence based medicine in a bit).
New Scientist article – again, an article… about Vioxx… and this is relevant to vaccinations how? Oh yeah – big pharma lies to us… unlike homeopaths, and natural remedy advocates, who suggest (and supply) a tree bark called sassafras tea to people with urinary tract infections. This natural remedy is carcinogenic, and causes slowing of the central nervous system, with harmful interactions with other medications. (and, there is no evidence
that it actually works!). See. both your reference and mine are completely irrelevant to vaccinations.
So, three strikes, you are out… I won’t waste my time looking at the others.
Now, to some of your other comments.
No one has ever stated that vaccinations would be 100% effective. You have chosen to make that assumption about
that.
Back to my having chicken pox. You continue to completely misinterpret my comments. I had chicken pox the first time at age 12. Had the vaccine been available, I would have received it at a younger age than that. So your continued comments about “that vaccine wouldn’t have done shit all if you had it as a kid.. seeing as how you told me you already had the virus” continue to just be bullshit; and, your comment “dumb enough to go expose yourself to more chicken pox” – isn’t that exactly what you anti-vaxxers believe in? Let’s expose ourselves to the virus, so that we will build up an immunity. Hmmmmm hypocritical much? You can’t have it both ways, where you should, or shouldn’t be exposed to the illness. So which is it?
Let’s go back to what actually constitutes evidence.
In the medical field, there is something called “evidence-based
medicine” that every medical field (with the exception of homeopaths and anti-vaxxers) work toward. How is something determined to be evidence-based?
When reviewing the multitude of studies, the methodology has to be disclosed, and the analysis has to be disclosed. The testing has to be reproduceable.
There is an evidence hierarchy, where the higher up the list, the more valid the evidence is.
The evidence hierarchy depends on the type of conclusions. For
conclusions about causation (i.e., the effect of interventions or exposures on outcomes), the evidence hierarchy from highest to lowest validity includes:
a. Randomized trials
b. Quasi-randomized trials
c. Cohort studies (observational comparisons of exposed and unexposed persons)
d. Case-control studies (observational comparisons of persons with and without the outcome of interest)
e. Case series (uncontrolled trials)
f. Expert opinion
For conclusions about diagnostic accuracy, the evidence hierarchy from highest to lowest validity includes:
a. Diagnostic cohort studies (with representative sample of patients with diagnostic uncertainty)
b. Diagnostic case-control studies (with non-representative samples of patients with known diagnosis and controls)
c. Diagnostic case series (including only patients with diagnosis to evaluate sensitivity only, or only patients without diagnosis to evaluate specificity only)
d. Expert opinion
For conclusions about prognosis, the evidence hierarchy includes:
a. Inception cohort studies
b. Retrospective cohort studies
c. Case series
d. Expert opinion
(quoted from http://health.ebsco.com/… An internationally well respected provider of scientific research studies)
Notice that the links you provided are only so-called expert opinion, the LOWEST and least valid form of evidence-based
medicine.
Here – take a look at a couple of sites: PubMed is a non-biased site that provides millions of research reports. Ebsco is
also a collection site for reports. I recommend that you spend some time, and read numerous reports from those sites.
So, you can continue to have your tantrum, and call names, but until you actually provide the actual research, showing double blind studies, randomized testing, and replicated studies, that are peer-reviewed and published in a non-biased medical journal, your opinions continue to be invalid.
I will not continue to reply to your childish name-calling posts. You have proven again and again that you are incapable of providing actual evidence, that you are incapable of cognitive
reading, and incapable of interacting like an adult.
Can you define “basically irradicated”? If you meant eradicated, how can something be “basically” eradicated? Either something is eradicated or it’s not.
If it blows your mind that people choose not to vaccinated perhaps you can present a controlled long-term study for those who choose not to vaccinated that demonstrates that fully vaccinated children have better overall health outcomes than fully unvaccinated?
The CDC is charged with vaccine uptake and is not an unbiased source of information, please try again.
You missed looking at the rates of persistent pesticides and comparing them to polio. If you disagree that vaccines do more harm then good, please post a link to any study comparing overall health outcomes between fully vaccinated and fully vaccinated children to back up your claim. I don’t make any such claims because I know such a study has never been done, but I do believe that there is widespread corruption in the industry and glaring conflicts of interest between the government regulatory agencies that are tasked with ensuring the safety of food and drugs like vaccines and until the revolving door gets shut down and the agencies rebuilt I have no issues with anyone choosing not to vaccinate.
Dr. Julie Gerberding, former CDC director, spoke many times for Merck in her role with the CDC specifically touting the benefits of the MMR vaccine. What job did Julie take when she left the CDC? Head of Vaccines at Merck Pharmaceuticals.
Just as there are no controlled studies to support the notion that the current vaccine schedule results in overall healthier children than not vaccinating at all.
No you’re mistaking mathematics with science. Science is not only about data and facts, science is about money and industry.
Just as you not knowing anyone who was permanently injured from a vaccine doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
Sorry but that’s not true, Pertussis (whooping cough) and influenza vaccines do nothing to prevent transmission. In addition vaccines carry a very real set of risks too, if someone decides they don’t want to risk their own health to “protect” someone else that doesn’t mean that they’re of the opinion that the other person’s health doesn’t matter. That’s a pretty huge unsupported jump in logic.
How have they saved “millions of lives” when historical data shows us that in many cases death rates had been reduced by over 99% in the 100 year period leading up to each diseases’ vaccination being first administered and the rate of decline was not changing. You cannot give the credit to a phenomenon that has no effect on something. You seem to be confusing morbidity rates with mortality rates. People often talk about how mortality rates don’t matter because the diseases cause all sorts of other conditions like encephalopathies, deafness, blindness, etc., but then at some point the vaccine zealot will issue the magic words, “wait until your decision kills someone”. So either death rates matter or they don’t, you can’t have it both ways.
It’s much more simple than that. If following the vaccine schedule today will result in my child’s overall health outcomes being better than refusing vaccinations altogether, please prove it with scientific data. It doesn’t matter who the person is saying, “vaccinating is the smarter, healthier decision”, all that matters is what the scientific data says and to the best of my knowledge no-one has bothered to do such a study, that leaves us with the scientific data = blind faith. Unless of course you’re aware of a study that the CDC is not aware of?
Or quite simply, show me the scientific data that shows fully vaccinating is healthier.
Your post is full of falsified claims, not Wakefield’s paper. Perhaps you should do your own research instead of learning about these issues from other people’s internet comments?
1) There was no made up data. There were 11 other authors, if you think any data was made up why some 15 years later hasn’t a single author of the paper agreed with you? The other authors disagreed with one possible interpretation of the data, not that the data was “made up”.
2) The paper was retracted over 10 years after it had been published in the Lancet, how did such a false paper published in one of the most prestigious peer-reviewed journals last so long? The paper was retracted by Sir Crispin Davis, CEO of Elsevier at the time. He was also making 70,000 pounds/year in a non-executive directorial position on the board of UK MMR makers Glaxo Smith Kline. No conflict of interests there right?
3) Not one single paper has compared ASD rates between fully vaccinated and fully unvaccinated children. If you’re referring to the Danish MMR study that looked at children who had MMR and who didn’t, that’s comparing kids with some 44 doses of 14 vaccines to those with some 42 doses of 13 vaccines, that is not a vax/unvax study. In addition Wakefield never said MMR causes autism, he said in a small subset of children with a pre-existing gastrointestinal disorder that MMR may trigger an autistic condition. The Danish MMR study did not compare ASD rates between those with this conditions who received MMR and those with this conditions that didn’t. He didn’t say stop vaccinating, he said consider the monovalent measles vaccine until more studies could be done on the MMR vaccine. The measles monovalent vaccine was still widely available at the time.
4) He lost his medical license because he failed to get ethics committee approval for some of the studies that were done. The 5-man panel that decided ethics committee approval was warranted didn’t have a single pediatric gastroenterologist on the panel, there was a GP, an adult psychiatrist, a geriatrician and two laypersons. No wonder Professor John Walker-Smith won his appeal to have his license reinstated a year or so later, no doubt Wakefield would have too.
Facts are very important, these are just a few you seem to have neglected in your post.
The problem with your statement about convincing evidence is that there has never been a single study comparing overall health outcomes between fully vaccinated and fully unvaccinated children, therefore the kind of evidence which one would find useful to support convincing parents to vaccinate doesn’t exist. You haven’t even scratched the surface of the problems that exist with the government regulatory agencies charged with ensuing these products are safe, does the revolving door not bother you? Does it not even make you bat an eyelid that the CDC’s former director who spoke many times about the safety of MMR while in her role as the CDC Director is now employed by US MMR makers Merck as “Head of Vaccines”?
Seriously?
Incorrect, Merck grossly overstated the efficacy of the mumps portion of the MMR vaccine.
You have never heard of mutations I expect?
Acellular pertussis vaccination enhances B. parapertussis colonization
An acellular whooping cough vaccine actually enhances the
colonization of Bordetella parapertussis in mice; pointing towards a rise in B.parapertussis incidence resulting from acellular vaccination, which may have contributed to the observed increase in whooping cough over the last decade.
Published: 2010
Author(s): Long GH, Karanikas AT, Harvill ET, Read AF, &
Hudson PJ
Title: Acellular pertussis vaccination facilitates Bordetella parapertussis infection in a rodent model of bordetellosis
Journal: Proceedings of the Royal Society Biological Sciences
doi: 10.1098/rspb.2010.0010
Despite widespread vaccination, whooping cough incidence is
on the rise worldwide, making it the only vaccine-preventable disease associated with increasing deaths in the United States. Although this disease is most often attributed to Bordetella pertussis infection, it is also caused by the closely related pathogen, B. parapertussis. However, B. pertussis has remained the center of attention, whereas B. parapertussis has been greatly overlooked in the development of whooping cough vaccines.